suggestions Thread for posting suggestions for Alpha 27.

[alre]

Just now, AIEND said:

我的意思是抛石机是弯曲的弹道，不能直瞄射击。

I mean the trajectory of the catapult is curved and you can't aim straight.

a catabult (ballista) is basically a big bow that uses torsion instead of flection, you can aim it the same way as a normal sized bow. in its size I mean.

the picture you posted depicts an onager, also called catapult, but not of the tipe you would use on a ship. a bolt shooter would be more useful than that.

[alre]

and honestly, even if I had an onager on a war ship, I wouldn't put its projectiles on fire. that would mean to risk putting on fire my own ship, and I can't see why someone would want to take such a big risk.

[Fabius]

Just now, AIEND said:

In fact, there is a question, what kind of catapult is installed on the warship, I have the impression that this kind of catapult is smaller and is used more.

A good point, though I belive this type was still quite accurate, the Trebuchat which also uses the sling arm was noted for being quite accurate as well. In rough seas though pretty much anything will be inaccurate, it must also be noted that in that age most battles would have been fought in calm weather and near the coast, so accuracy would not really be an issue.

[Fabius]

4 minutes ago, alre said:

a catabult (ballista) is basically a big bow that uses torsion instead of flection, you can aim it the same way as a normal sized bow. in its size I mean.

the picture you posted depicts an onager, also called catapult, but not of the tipe you would use on a ship. a bolt shooter would be more useful than that.

A bolt shooter would be a safer option for shooting flaming projectiles.

[AIEND]

5 分钟前，alre 说：

弹射器（弩炮）基本上是一种使用扭转而不是弯曲的大弓，您可以像普通尺寸的弓一样瞄准它。 我的意思是它的大小。

您发布的图片描绘了一个 onager，也称为弹射器，但不是您在船上使用的小费。 螺栓射手会比这更有用。

A catapult using an orbit must have a certain elevation angle to launch it at sea, otherwise the rocks will slide away as the hull shakes.

[AIEND]

4 分钟前，Fabius 说：

螺栓射击器将是射击燃烧弹丸的更安全选择。

Onager or Trebuchat usually project a clay pot filled with oil, which is also relatively safe.

[Fabius]

1 minute ago, AIEND said:

Onager or Trebuchat usually project a clay pot filled with oil, which is also relatively safe.

True, and would be devastating against a wooden structure.

[alre]

5 minutes ago, AIEND said:

A catapult using an orbit must have a certain elevation angle to launch it at sea, otherwise the rocks will slide away as the hull shakes.

I don't unserstand.

[AIEND]

8 分钟前，alre 说：

老实说，即使我在战舰上有一只小火龙，我也不会把它的炮弹着火。 那将意味着冒着着火我自己的船的风险，我不明白为什么有人愿意冒这么大的风险。

Because setting the enemy's ship on fire was the most efficient means of attack, the Greek fire was also a very dangerous weapon for the operator, but the Romans loved it.

[Fabius]

This bring me back to the idea that utilising the fire mechanic from Iberian cavalry could open up some interesting diversification. Nobody has a monopoly on fire, I think it would be interesting to have a diversification in the incendiary department.

[Fabius]

Chiefly I would like to see it as a technology for those civs with catapults. Basically apply fire debuff to targets within a given radius. 

 

[soloooy0]

one thing that would be important, is that the units cannot see behind the walls, to help the defenses and that the siege towers have greater utility to be able to see over the walls. 

[Fabius]

Just now, soloooy0 said:

one thing that would be important, is that the units cannot see behind the walls, to help the defenses and that the siege towers have greater utility to be able to see over the walls. 

Is that possible to code for? 

[AIEND]

5 分钟前，Fabius 说：

这让我想起了利用伊比利亚骑兵的火力机制可以开辟一些有趣的多样化的想法。 没有人垄断着火，我认为在燃烧部门多元化会很有趣。

The first thing to do is to add flaming arrows to the archer.

[AIEND]

2 分钟前，soloooy0 说：

一件很重要的事情是，部队不能看到墙后，以帮助防御，攻城塔具有更大的效用，可以看到墙外。 

You mean to add the effect of blocking the view to the building?

[Fabius]

Just now, AIEND said:

The first thing to do is to add flaming arrows to the archer.

For use against siege yes, we need to be careful with ranged units though. This is why i prefer to add it  to catapults, one because ranged units already have a lot going for them. Catapults do not.

[Fabius]

2 minutes ago, Fabius said:

For use against siege yes, we need to be careful with ranged units though. This is why i prefer to add it  to catapults, one because ranged units already have a lot going for them. Catapults do not.

Two because I would like to have a reason to enjoy using catapults again, and three for tactical diversity.

[AIEND]

9 minutes ago, Fabius said:

是的，为了对抗攻城，我们需要小心远程单位。 这就是为什么我更喜欢将它添加到弹射器中，因为远程单位已经有很多用途了。 弹射器没有。

I have a question, how does the ballista fire the incendiary? Because its track is wooden, it will ignite.

[Fabius]

1 minute ago, AIEND said:

I have a question, how does the ballista fire the incendiary? Because its track is wooden, it will ignite.

metal plating, also its a long bolt so the flaming part is likely sticking out in front and not on the actual framework. Same way that incendiary arrows would work except on a larger scale.

[Fabius]

Just now, Fabius said:

metal plating, also its a long bolt so the flaming part is likely sticking out in front and not on the actual framework. Same way that incendiary arrows would work except on a larger scale.

Also they would light and fire very close together so it probably would not have time to catch fire. Overall a fire pot would be a much more effective way to set something on fire than arrows.

[AIEND]

2 minutes ago, Fabius said:

金属镀层，也是一个长螺栓，所以燃烧的部分很可能伸出在前面，而不是在实际的框架上。 与燃烧箭的工作方式相同，但规模更大。

Is there any real-world evidence of such a coating? Also if it's just firing a javelin that burns at the front, the ballista probably won't be any more effective than a bolt shooter, can it fire a can of oil or a fireball made of hay?

[Fabius]

2 minutes ago, AIEND said:

Is there any real-world evidence of such a coating? Also if it's just firing a javelin that burns at the front, the ballista probably won't be any more effective than a bolt shooter, can it fire a can of oil or a fireball made of hay?

A bolt shooter is in the same category as a ballista, I don't think it can shoot fireballs, though maybe flaming jars would work, sling arm catapulst would be a better choice for that. Also later era Roman bolt shooters used mostly metal components, so they could easily do incendiary bolts if necessary. 

[Fabius]

It largely comes down to what would be most effective and simple to use.

[AIEND]

5 minutes ago, Fabius said:

螺栓射手与弩炮属于同一类别，我认为它不能发射火球，尽管可能燃烧的罐子会起作用，吊臂弹射器会是更好的选择。 同样后期罗马螺栓射手主要使用金属部件，因此他们可以在必要时轻松使用燃烧螺栓。 

Generally speaking, I think that the ballista is a big one, a bolt shooter that can shoot rocks, and there is no difference between the two in terms of shooting javelins.
I guess that's why the Ballista was eventually phased out as it was more complicated and less convenient for throwing large incendiaries, and the Onager or Trebuchat eventually took over its ability to fire rocks.

[Fabius]

17 minutes ago, AIEND said:

Generally speaking, I think that the ballista is a big one, a bolt shooter that can shoot rocks, and there is no difference between the two in terms of shooting javelins.
I guess that's why the Ballista was eventually phased out as it was more complicated and less convenient for throwing large incendiaries, and the Onager or Trebuchat eventually took over its ability to fire rocks.

Yes, Torsion weapons were generally a lot more complicated to build and maintain, and traction trebuchets and the later counterweight trebuchet proved much more useful and easier to build, and they could also be built larger so as to threaten previously impregnable fortifications.