real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Catapults at the moment just take way too long to destroy enemy buildings. Their damage rate and unpack pack times (with adjustment) mean that it takes forever to deal proper damage to your enemies. To make matters worse, they can be killed by ranged units very easily. Should they recieve a buff in A26? I think adding a very small (1 or 0.5 meter) splash damage range where the full damage of the projectile is dealt. Also, they should do more damage IMO. @LetswaveaBook made these changes in his gameplay balance mod. To me, it seems like a no-brainer for a26. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player of 0AD Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Splash damage? Sounds like they become the horrible unit-killers again like in A23. What about just buffing them against buildings? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilosopher Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said: Splash damage? Sounds like they become the horrible unit-killers again like in A23. What about just buffing them against buildings? I assume the objection to buffing them only against buildings is that it would make them too similar to rams? Presumably the ideal function of catapults is that they're OK but not great at killing units (i.e., better than rams, which don't kill units at all) but not as good as rams at knocking down buildings? Edited February 27, 2022 by thephilosopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said: What about just buffing them against buildings? This is the main thing. I think a very small radius is ideal if we bring back splash at all, since they really should be able to do some damage to units, just not over such a massive area like in A23. I think a25 has missed the gradual pressure provided by catas, since rams and eles are just way better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, thephilosopher said: I assume the objection to buffing them only against buildings is that it would make them too similar to rams? There is no objection so far. rams and catas play very differently because of range, weakness, and the need to unpack them. A damage buff will not change that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIEND Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 I think the catapult is not easy to use because those situations that make it more effective than ram are not easy to come up, some are related to the map design, some are related to the player's tactical habits. For example, if your opponent has built a fort in a narrow pass with several walls and fences in front, you don't want your ram to rush up and huddle, but you want the catapult to cross Strike the fort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroder Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4511 as a proposed patch 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 In my opinion, the biggest problem with catapults in A25 is the unit AI bug. Sometimes they refuse to fire, other times they refuse to shoot at the selected target and packs randomly. Aside from that, I think A23 catapults were too OP due to high armour and high damage against units. If we do not give them splash damage but a reasonable firing rate and a functional AI, then they would become usable again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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