First steps with EndeavourOS (and a bit ArchLinux) and beyond

[Ceres]

This was started because of this (where I got OT, sorry ):

EDIT: I renamed this thread, as it now seems to be more EndeavourOS-related (and not anymore about which Linux distribution is recommended in context with 0 A.D.). Thanks to all who helped  

On 25/09/2021 at 10:14 AM, Yekaterina said:

Arch Linux has good performance indeed; you can get access to the latest nvidia drivers quite easily and use custom kernels (I use linux-zen) for even better performance. Furthermore, getting an AUR helper like yay or paru means easy access to a huge database of software packages, including proprietary ones (Zoom, MS Teams, Whatsapp, WPS Office) and testing versions of Windows-only apps. Furthermore, all of the packages you use are the latest and greatest. However, there are 2 major problems with Arch Linux:

1. You need install it via command line interface, so some might find it hard. However, there are so many tutorials on Youtube so it really isn't a problem. If you are afraid of damaging your PC, you can try  it in VirtualBox first. 

2. It is a rolling release, so it is very possible that your OS will run into errors after some kernel updates. To prevent this from happening, I recommend you update your system every evening to ensure everything is compatible with each other. System update is easy with an AUR helper: just type yay in the terminal and the yay AUR helper will do everything for you automatically. 

So, I would recommend Arch if you are comfortable with command line interface and willing to spend 15-30 minutes installing your system. 

 

Some other OS:

Fedora34: Very stable and also up to date software. Easy to set up. However, it is a little bit difficult to install nvidia driver on Fedora and their package manager (dnf) has relatively few software in comparison to apt (Debian, Ubuntu) and Arch AUR. You need to rely on Flatpaks, which may or may not be a good thing. The system will not fail if you forget to update it often. 

Endeavour OS: Based on Arch Linux, but has easy graphical installer and nice desktop interface (which you can choose during the installation process). It is basically a noob-friendly version of Arch that has all of the features of Arch and some bloatware alongside it. 

OpenSUSE: has a user repository like Arch and is more stable. However, I haven't spent much time with this distro so I can't be sure. 

 

OS to avoid:

Debian based (Ubuntu, Mint, etc)- stable, but packages are so outdated!

Manjaro, Garuda - so much bloatware!

Gentoo, Void Linux - unfriendly to beginners. 

On 25/09/2021 at 10:21 AM, Freagarach said:

You could also chose to update your apt list to use the Debian testing repositories. Changes of an unusable system are still low, due to the time in Debian Sid, but you can still have quite up to date packages (like 0 A.D. A25b).

(See e.g. https://www.osradar.com/how-to-change-debian-stable-to-debian-testing/.)

On 25/09/2021 at 10:29 AM, Yekaterina said:

Yes, I suppose so. However, if is some extra work and you still can't get things as bleeding edge as Arch. You still can't get KDE Plasma 5.2 on Debian, but it has been available for a long time on Arch. 

Xanmod Kernel might be worth it but it really isn't as convenient as Endeavour OS. 

On 25/09/2021 at 6:31 PM, Ceres said:

I'm familiar with the CLI. However, caring for updates every day is not my cup of tea. I will check Arch. No need for KDE or other fancy GUIs. The less resource-hungry it is, the better. Cheers!

Edit: One update check per week is ok for me.

@Yekaterina
By xen kernel you mean a xen hypervisor for virtualization?

Would you recommend proprietary NVidia or xf86-video-nouveau drivers?

With the latest proprietary NVidia drivers (under Debian 11, though), I experienced tearing, which I would like to avoid, hence my question about your recommendation/ experience.

 

PS (for all interested):

https://archlinux.org/packages/?q=0ad

Edited September 29, 2021 by Ceres

[Dizaka]

I use debian on a desktop.  Arch on a laptop.

I've found arch really difficult to install and it was a steep learning curve.  However, it seems like it was worth it.  When doing the installation I recommend you follow the tutorials and write down the commands you use in some sort of document.  It's useful to figure out where you go wrong and understand everything more.

I started with a regular install of Arch but now it is a raid install on lvm2 that is encrypted.  Really happy with it.  I think it is actually easier to install 0ad on arch than on debian.  I could be wrong but I still can't install newest 0ad on my debian system - just using the 25-rc5-25848 version.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Dizaka

[Ceres]

@Dizaka

Which GPU drivers do you use - proprietary or the ones from Arch?

Since my Intel board has hardware RAID and I have 2 SSDs setup as raid, I wonder if software raid/lvm on top would be of added value for me. I would not like encryption for fear of decreased performance, but I might be wrong.

[Dizaka]

@Ceres

My understanding is with the modern CPUs encryption doesn't decrease performance.  However, it may be bad for SSDs as they'll get "used up" faster.  I haven't had an SSD die yet.  The raid I use is software raid (on desktop, don't have raid on arch laptop).  My motherboard supports raid but needs special drivers to setup (works with windows) but that won't work with linux.

I use the nvidia drivers on both, desktop and laptop.

The lvm I did more for personal knowledge with multiple reformat for the arch laptop.  Attached are the "commands" I use to install arch.  I'm using IWD on arch to manage wireless networks.  Makes life so much easier but was difficult to setup due to a need to mask wpa_supplicant since it sometimes auto installs on full system upgrade (took a while to figure this out).  The links in the file direct to the tutorials I used in addition to the arch wiki.

Arch Install.pdf

Edited September 25, 2021 by Dizaka

[Yekaterina]

2 hours ago, Ceres said:

By xen kernel you mean a xen hypervisor for virtualization?

A kernel is a sort of a bridge between hardware and software. It is the very basic core of an operating system. 

Xanmod is another alternative linux kernel that is better optimised than the default one. It doesn't matter too much. 

The idea is, if you install Arch, you can choose which kernel to install by yourself, so you won't end up with one that you don't like and spend hours compiling a new one. For other Linux distros, they give you one by default. If you like their default one, that's good, but if you don't, then you need to compile a new one and reinstall the kernel. This process is very tedious on some distros. 

 

[Ceres]

Does anyone of you have a working PXE setup to start ArchLinux (netboot would be sufficient) from UEFI?

I have PXE set up on my Synology but have difficulties in understanding how to get ArchLinux chainloaded from it, especially since my mainboard is set to UEFI (which I would not like to change back to legacy BIOS). If this is too difficult for me, I will put Arch (netboot or full package) on a USB stick and install it from there, i.e. PXE is rather a "nice to have" for me.

PS for the record: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Netboot#Using_ipxe.pxe

Quote

Using ipxe.pxe

The ipxe.pxe image is a PXE image. It can be chainloaded from an existing PXE environment. This allows configuring a DHCP server such that booting from the network will always boot into Arch Linux netboot.

Alternatively, you can also chainload it from existing pxe loader such as pxelinux. This is a menu entry example:

LABEL arch_netboot_chain
  COM32 pxechn.c32
  APPEND ipxe.a56af4e6a9a9.pxe

For this example to work you must have pxechn.c32 copied to the directory where your pxelinux.0 resides.

I'll use pxechn.c32 from the latest syslinux-6.03 and try that...

Edited September 26, 2021 by Ceres

[Ceres]

Well, it seems that I'm, better off with an ISO image an a thumbdrive to install Arch. I'm writing the ISO "release" of 01 Sep 2021 to my USB stick under Windows 10 using the rufus app, where I selected GPT as partition scheme and UEFI (without CSM) as target system, as the mainboard is set to UEFI (not BIOS). Let's see if that works...

EDIT: I'm getting old. While I could spend further time on pure ArchLinux, I'm now heading over to EndevourOS and check how this works.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Ceres

[Yekaterina]

4 hours ago, Ceres said:

Well, it seems that I'm, better off with an ISO image an a thumbdrive to install Arch. I'm writing the ISO "release" of 01 Sep 2021 to my USB stick under Windows 10 using the rufus app, where I selected GPT as partition scheme and UEFI (without CSM) as target system, as the mainboard is set to UEFI (not BIOS). Let's see if that works...

Yes, use rufus to flash the image is the most reliable method. Choose to write in UEFI or mbr mode (just not dd). If you do it right your USB should be named something like ARCHLINUX_2021

Then boot into UEFI mode if your PC supports it. 

I am making a tutorial video on how to set up arch for 0ad, please stay tuned!

Edited September 26, 2021 by Yekaterina

[Yekaterina]

@Ceres Do you need me to show you how to install arch? Or can you install it by yourself, using other tutorial videos?

 

[sarcoma]

I got it to work with https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Netboot#Installation_with_efibootmgr

You might need to change the timeout https://linux.die.net/man/8/efibootmgr

[Ceres]

Thank you both for your kind offer to help and for your hints. I really appreciate it.

I had started with some OpenSUSE in the 90s (if I remember correctly), did some excursion into Slackware, used XenHypervisor on baremetal hardware, and have been using Debian and Ubuntu for the recent years (besides Windows).

My problem is that I cannot seem to keep up with the many changes (family, job - you name it ). So I know a bit of many things, but nothing really good enough, it seems.

I'm also familiar with the CLI in general (mainly Debian), so I know how to use fdisk, mount partitions, edit fstab, configure stuff like sshd etc. So I'm no beginner but not enthusiastic enough to become a pro.

A problem I had with ArchLinux and the really helpful rufus tool was that despite my board is set to UEFI and I set GPT and UEFI also in rufus, when booting with that stick, I got a message about not being able to boot, because the image was UEFI but the system not. I have no clue why, especially as I have the same board twice and on the other, Windows 10 runs as UEFI. I don't want to bore you with more details, so to make it short: I will try EndevourOS. If I'll have the same problem, I'll see in the next days (takes a while).

If EndevourOS doesn't boot with UEFI, I will set everything up as BIOS. At least setting the system up should be easier then as compared to bare ArchLinux. BTW, I wouldn't care too much about "bloatware", hoping that I could remove what I don't need, e.g. Office and maths stuff, which I don't need for my purposes. Are there really "bloatware" programmes on EndeavourOS that could become problematic?

Xfce is default, I read, and I would keep it, as I like it. Or do you suggest another desktop environment?

The most important thing for me is to have 0ad working nicely, both from release and from svn. The hardware should be good enough.

[Freagarach]

If you're a long-time Debian user, and don't fancy learning something new from scratch, why don't you just use Debian Testing then? It is as simple as changing a few lines in your sources.list and there is less chance at breaking than Arch, AFAIK (unless you need/want stuff from Sid, I guess). Updating that once a week is fine, once a month maybe even.

[Ceres]

You certainly have a good point. I'll try EnOS now (also because I'm curious) and may eventually go back to Debian, but set it to testing.

[Yekaterina]

Ok. Endeavour OS is a good starting point. It is easier to install. However, the setup bit is the same as Arch

[Yekaterina]

@Ceres I typed up this document on how to install Arch Linux, KDE desktop and set up Arch dev environment for 0ad dev:

Arch install guide.docx

Please skip to step 15 if you have Endeavour OS installed already.

[Ceres]

I appreciate your help very much!

However, I have problems already with the installation of EnOS and have no clue what's going wrong. E.g. why does it tell me that the device (I understand that it's the thumbdrive with the OS) does not show up after it has booted from it? I don't like presenting console screenshots in a forum, as they are sometimes not good to read, but I have no other access to that machine, sorry.

The PC has an Intel board set to UEFI (not BIOS) and contains 2 SSDs, which are hardware-RAID0 (stripe) per Intel config (Ctrl+I). I never needed any additional drivers for such a setup, neither for Windows 10, nor for Debian, when setting it up. The RAID volume was always recognized by the OS installer without "F6 method" (i.e. without the need to manually load RAID drivers or slipstream them before). But maybe there is another problem that has nothing to do with RAID? When I used the rufus tool to write the EnOS ISO image (via ISO not DD method) I made sure to select GPT/UEFI (again, no BIOS). Oh, and I set the RAID also in the "BIOS" (well, UEFI, whatever we call it in this case).

Test No. 2: I set the 2 SSDs to non-RAID but the same as above.

Test No. 3: I set AHCI instead of RAID, but still no joy.

Test No. 4: I set IDE (native) instead of AHCI, but still no joy.

Hm, I think that there's something wrong with the new USB stick (32 GB, formatted and written to with rufus). Maybe I should now set my board to BIOS/legacy and rewrite the EnOS image to that stick with GRUB/BIOS accordingly... Whether the 2 SSDs are set up as IDE, AHCI, or RAID (stripe) maybe does not matter. If it worked, I would prefer striped RAID0 (only 60 GB in total but sufficient for my purposes).

PS: This is a clean install, i.e. no previous OS, no dual boot.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ceres

[Ceres]

Lo and behold, this looks quite different now that I changed everyhting from GPT/UEFI to GRUB/BIOS. Let's see how far I come...

PS: This machine has an ASUS GT 710 GPU. I'm tempted to use the non-free Nvidia drivers instead of nouveau.

PPS: Yep, it goes farther now. So it was not good (in my case) to fiddle with GPT/UEFI.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ceres

[Yekaterina]

Hmm the first one is very strange. Endeavour OS should only present you with graphical interface and no command line.

If UEFI fails then falling back to Bios boot is a good idea. I am just not sure if you will encounter problems when you try to dual boot. If you want to dual boot, make sure you install windows 10 first, then Linux, because windows automatically overwrites everything.

[Yekaterina]

I think a plausible cause is a contact problem between the USB and the PC while it is booting. It has happened to me before. Just try booting again.

[Ceres]

No dual boot planned, as I will use this machine for EnOS, only. Maybe I will xrdp into it from my laptop, but I would also like to see if 0ad runs faster than on Windows 10. BTW. the EnOS GUI screen is beautiful, but of course that's purely personal taste. The rating of mirrors is a nice option right at the beginning. Nice I'm going to start the installer now and then go back to your guide (for the 0ad-specific stuff). Again, thanks a lot for your help! Maybe your guide should be pinned in the forum, so other ArchLinux users don't have to search for it.

[Yekaterina]

5 minutes ago, Ceres said:

Maybe your guide should be pinned in the forum, so other ArchLinux users don't have to search for it.

Thanks, a good idea.

Enjoy your Arch!

AUR helpers are seriously OP.

[Ceres]

2 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

AUR helpers are seriously OP.

Means what? (I read "OP" quite often in the forum but have no clue about its meaning)

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ceres

[Yekaterina]

2 minutes ago, Ceres said:

(I read "OP" quite often in the forum but have no clue about its meaning)

OP = overpowered

What I mean is, it saves you a lot of time and effort when installing software, because it handles the dependencies and build commands automatically.

[Ceres]

Ah, thanks!

PS:

Oops, the installation failed when trying to create a new partition (55,43 GiB, ext4) on '/dev/md126'. I assume that I have to give up the idea of RAID and use plain IDE instead, i.e. with 2 separate SSDs (each with 32 GB), which would be ok, too.

PPS2:

Yep, this works, i.e. I had to remove the RAID via the Intel RAID setup (Ctrl+I) but could keep RAID in the BIOS settings (instead of IDE or AHCI). Now the installer runs...

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ceres

[Ceres]

This OS is really nice: easy to follow information, setup, config, a very fast package manager, and 0ad 25 running nicely.

Maybe softraid could have been an alternative to the hardware raid that did not seem to work for me (at least not out-of-the-box), or lvm. But for the time being, I simply keep the 2 SSDs separate as they are. Maybe I'll use the second one for testing stuff (like 0ad).

BTW, can 0ad be run with a "write-to-root" option like under Windows? Thus, I could keep settings and config of 0ad for playing separate from testing. Else, I wouldn't know how to put the "for testing" (svn) 0ad on that second SSD without suddenly having all settings under my user account.