Lion.Kanzen Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) we are going to make a couple of historical corrections and to follow a second stage of development with many fixes. <Reserved space> @Lopess help me with the list of fixes. Edited April 25, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted April 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 things that I consider to fix. Accurate Emblem. Mesoamerican common tech tree. Accurate scout. New classes: New classes of pre-Columbian units. For jungle and forest combat. (All precolumbians mods). New props for Arsenal. This is my list. PD: Even try voices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinketos Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 the scout cout be a messenger: God speed but not attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted April 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, Trinketos said: the scout cout be a messenger: God speed but not attack he should defend himself even with a stick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 A good read that I am reviewing today. I believe that we can have a more restricted view in relation to the units, very much based on what we know of the zapotecs of the initial pre-classico / classico. This can be done based on the Zapotec ceramics, stellas and murals of the time. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC208841/ MILITARY CONSOLIDATION OF THE VALLEY OF OAXACA: 2450–2000 B.P. Some time before 2450 B.P., presumably seeking a more defensible location, the occupants of San José Mogote and its satellite communities moved to the summit of a 400-m mountain. This mountain, known as Monte Albán, lay in the former buffer zone between rival polities (7). The new arrivals, at least 2,000 strong, began building 3 km of defensive walls along the more easily climbed western slopes of the mountain (Fig. 3d). They also began work on a building with more than 300 carved stones depicting slain captives (Fig. 3c). For the next 400 years they would fight relentlessly to subjugate their political rivals, and raiding would give way to full-scale war. During the period known as Early Monte Albán I (2450–2250 B.P.) the population of the Valley of Oaxaca grew to an estimated 8,000–10,000 persons, distributed through 261 communities (8). Nearly a third of the valley's population lived on the defended mountaintop at Monte Albán. They had the support of the entire northern and central valley, the region from which their founding populations had come. A day's journey to the south, however, lay Tilcajete, an unyielding rival. One of the most interesting stories to emerge from recent research is Monte Albán's use of military force to subjugate Tilcajete. Details and 14C dates have been provided by Spencer and Redmond (9, 17, 18). Tilcajete's response to the founding of Monte Albán was to double its own size, from 25 ha to 52.8 ha; future research may show that it drew in manpower from satellite villages for defense. Tilcajete built a civic-ceremonial plaza with an astronomical orientation different from Monte Albán's. Its defiance deprived it of luxury goods that Monte Albán supplied to its allies. Then, toward the end of Early Monte Albán I, Tilcajete was attacked by Monte Albán and its plaza was burned (18). Charcoal from this conflagration (9) has been dated to 2280 ± 40 B.P., or 330 b.c. (β147541). Tilcajete refused to capitulate. During the period known as Late Monte Albán I (2250–2000 B.P.), it grew to 71.5 ha and built a new plaza on a more easily defended ridge. The new civic-ceremonial center retained the astronomical orientation of its predecessor, and added defensive walls on its most easily climbed southern flanks (Fig. 3e). Monte Albán, however, was prepared for a long campaign; it concentrated thousands of farmers, artisans, and warriors in 155 satellite villages within 15 km of its plaza (8). Eventually it attacked Tilcajete again, burning both the ruler's palatial residence and a nearby temple (9). Charcoal from the burned residence (currently our oldest dated Zapotec palace) came out 1970 ± 60 B.P., or 20 b.c. (β143355). Charcoal from the burned temple dated to 1980 ± 70 B.P., or 30 b.c. (β143353). Tilcajete did not survive this second attack. It was abandoned, and on a mountaintop nearby, its conquerors commissioned an administrative center subordinate to Monte Albán (22). At this point Monte Albán controlled the entire 2,150-km2 Valley of Oaxaca and had become the capital of a Zapotec state (18). Go to: MILITARY EXPANSION OUTSIDE THE VALLEY OF OAXACA: 2000–1700 B.P. Over the next 200 years, the Zapotec state expanded 150 km beyond the limits of the Valley of Oaxaca. One building in the civic-ceremonial plaza at Monte Albán displayed hieroglyphic names for more than 40 places claimed as provinces (Fig. 3g). Only a handful of these places have been identified, but that identification has provided evidence for Zapotec expansion. One of the best-studied places is the Cuicatlán Cañada, an arid tropical river canyon 80 km north of Monte Albán. Both the details of conquest and the 14C dates are provided by Spencer and Redmond (11, 17, 23). The Zapotec military encountered little resistance in Cuicatlán, burning villages on the river alluvium and moving the population to the piedmont to make way for new irrigation canals. At one village, La Coyotera, the conquerors erected a feature the Zapotec called yàgabetoo, a wooden rack displaying the skulls of 61 of the vanquished (Fig. 3h). A carbonized postmold from this rack (17) dated to 1960 ± 100 B.P., or 10 b.c. (β143344). The Zapotec then built a major fortress near the region's northern gateway. Charcoal from construction fill in this fortress (17) provides a date of 1910 ± 70 B.P., or A.D. 40 (β147535). By this period, known as Monte Albán II, Zapotec armies were so professionalized that celebrated warriors were given helmets depicting pumas, coyotes, or raptorial birds (Fig. 3f). It is likely that by 2000 B.P., only 1,200 years since the first palisaded village, the Zapotec were already waging war on the scale witnessed by the 16th-century Spaniards (Table 1). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 #The second image is a woman of royalty, probably a queen. #Last image of a fortress probably started in the year 40 A.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 In addition to the scout / hunter we could think of a fire unit (similar to the Iberian champion?) Or a technology to represent the main characteristic of conquering structures with fire (of course, this act, besides the practical factor, had the symbolic factor of burning an enemy temple or palace). Champion units noble warriors or savvy warriors (the two should be practically synonymous because the nobility was closely linked to war and sarcedocio) They must have beautiful helmets with coyotes, birds of prey and cougars. We must not forget the nagualism that was also present 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 Male gurines. Warriors wearing cotton armor from Lambityeco (a), El Palmillo (b), the Mitla Fortress (c), and Ejutla (d). Warriors wearing feathered capes from Lambityeco (e), the Mitla Fortress (f), and El Palmillo (g). Warriors wearing only a loincloth from Ejutla (h). Warrior wearing plain jacket from the Mitla Fortress (i) and Lambityeco (j). Male gurines. Possible priests from the Mitla Fortress (a), El Palmillo (b), Lambityeco (c), and Ejutla (d). Warriors with trophy heads from Lambityeco (e) and El Palmillo (f). Warriors wearing helmets from the Mitla Fortress (g) and Lambityeco (h); feathered hoods from Lambityeco (i) and the Mitla Fortress (j); tiered hoods from El Palmillo (k) and Lambityeco (l). https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339106801_Classic_Period_Figurines_from_the_Valley_of_Oaxaca_Mexico_and_Their_Contexts_Gary_M_Feinman_and_Linda_M_Nicholas_2019_The_Wisconsin_Archaeologist_1001-2_105-130 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 On 3/24/2021 at 5:45 PM, Lopess said: Some cool things I found in pdfs about trying to decipher the ancient Zapotec glyphs. In red are possible clubs / spears with one side coated with obsidian (which makes me believe that nothing would prevent a club with both sides) The central figures are apparently noble warriors or warrior priests using for the exfoliated of their victims, in their hands a small shield and perhaps an atlatl ?? In this second image we see in the center what is probably a royal couple worshiping an ancestor. underneath well-armed warriors with padded cotton armor, many wearing pastas with cotton covers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 @Lion.Kanzen, what do you think of giving the Zapotec champion a ranged attack on buildings with fire? I still don't know how, but I believe it is possible for him to change ranged attacks on buildings and fight hand-to-hand against other units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, Lopess said: giving the Zapotec champion a ranged attack on buildings with fire? I damage by fire? 24 minutes ago, Lopess said: @Lion.Kanzen, what do you think of giving the Zapotec champion a ranged attack on buildings with fire? I still don't know how, but I believe it is possible for him to change ranged attacks on buildings and fight hand-to-hand against other units. que tal unidades con antorchas. arsonist. fueron comunes en la conquista. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: damage by fire? que tal unidades con antorchas. arsonist. fueron comunes en la conquista. Tengo estos en Mayas preclassic. Edited May 13, 2021 by Lopess 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Lopess said: Tengo estos en Mayas preclassic. seem right. @Lopess can we add your mod to Terra magna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: seem right. @Lopess can we add your mod to Terra magna? I support it but I still see him as a "teenager", perhaps after the zapotecs are completely complete and accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 I have the A23 Terra Magna downloaded, which contains some ready made zapotec civ. I believe I can convert that into an A25 civ on its own after some editing. If Lopess and Lion Kanzen can handle the Mayans and Zapotecs that would be great. I will keep working on Aristeia, which is a difficult task. If you guys can't then I can give you a hand where I can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 43 minutes ago, Lopess said: I support it but I still see him as a "teenager", perhaps after the zapotecs are completely complete and accurate. I need to test the civs in the same mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Yekaterina said: I have the A23 Terra Magna downloaded, which contains some ready made zapotec civ. I believe I can convert that into an A25 civ on its own after some editing. If Lopess and Lion Kanzen can handle the Mayans and Zapotecs that would be great. I will keep working on Aristeia, which is a difficult task. If you guys can't then I can give you a hand where I can. On github there is an updated version of terra magna for alpha 24. Download it if you want to see the current gameplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Lopess said: github there is an updated version of terra magna for alpha 24. Download it if you want to see the current gameplay. Thanks. That would save me an hour worth of work converting XML files A24 to A24 is relatively easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 If you want me to update them to alpha 25, I'm just going to wait for the freeze to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Lopess said: freeze The freeze? If you can do Zapotec that would be great. We can use Stan version of Han Chinese for A25. Xiongnu... Let's use DE instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 This weekend I will try to make new helmets and body textures for the Zapotecs, the current ones mostly from the postclassic. As you can see in the previous conversations I believe that a siege warrior with torches and a scout unit could be added, I believe that a balance will be necessary. I am not an english speaker, any error automatically consider a google translate error. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Lopess said: As you can see in the previous conversations I believe that a siege warrior with torches and a scout unit could be added, I believe that a balance will be necessary Check DE git for a Zapotec scout. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 Check this out. I made a forum to share the technical bits and you guys please keep talking about history / unit design here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 I am working on new precisely historic helmets for the Zapotecs, besides I intend to create yet another variation in the body texture of the padded armor and a new variation for the shield. In addition I will add the warrior with siege torch and the scout running unit of Delenda est. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 Proposal - Zapotec rulers of the Preclassic Period, early classic. ( AI player names) The current names are PosClasico (1300-1520), In this proposal there are only attested names from preclassic to classic (200 BC - 550 AD) It's not perfect but it's much closer. - 200 B.C. (5 Alligator) /// Chantino ///Gaayu’ Chilla - 400 A.D.- 550 A.D. (8 earthquake)///Monte Albán ///Xhono Xoo (11 Rain)///Monte Albán ///Chii ne tobi Lape (4 Alligator )///Monte Albán ///Tapa Chilla (13 Soap plant )///Monte Albán ///Chii ne chonna Piya (5 jaguar)///Monte Albán ///Gaayu’ Beedxe (13 earthquake)///Monte Albán ///Chii ne chonna Guela Fonts:http://www.famsi.org/zapotecwriting/zapotec_figures.pdf *There are a few more names, I will consult my pdfs and leave this post. *The translations for Zapoteco are mine, from online content, I believe the numbers are very "up to date" if someone has more contact with the language even more with Proto-Zapoteco would be of great help. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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