Split out discussion on 0 A.D.'s current Design Documents

[StopKillingMe]

Moderation note: The posts in this thread were split off from here as it was increasingly off-topic.

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On 6/10/2019 at 10:18 AM, wraitii said:

That's still an open question at the moment.

It shouldn't be.

[Stan`]

2 minutes ago, StopKillingMe said:

It shouldn't be.

Well, it is.

[StopKillingMe]

30 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Well, it is.

It's incredibly irresponsible.

[wraitii]

5 minutes ago, StopKillingMe said:

It's incredibly irresponsible.

Uncertainty can be a guiding light.

[Stan`]

19 minutes ago, StopKillingMe said:

It's incredibly irresponsible.

Since 0 A.D. is a hobbyist project and has lasted for more than 18 years, it will be fine. Also the founders didn't account for everything.

[StopKillingMe]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

Since 0 A.D. is a hobbyist project and has lasted for more than 18 years, it will be fine. Also the founders didn't account for everything.

Of course they didn't, but they also didn't get everything completely wrong as some are suggesting.  How the CC works and how resources are collected does not need to be changed.

[Guest]

Quote

Of course they didn't, but they also didn't get everything completely wrong as some are suggesting.  How the CC works and how resources are collected does not need to be changed.

If the latter is true, some part of the former is false. The current game is nothing like the old design.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Guest

[Lion.Kanzen]

18 minutes ago, (-_-) said:

If the latter is true, some part of the former is false. The current game is nothing like the old design.

yes, newcomers aren't aware of this.  the game design is nothing compared to actual game and features.

[StopKillingMe]

On 6/10/2019 at 10:15 PM, (-_-) said:

If the latter is true, some part of the former is false. The current game is nothing like the old design.

My point remains that all this talk of drastically changing things is counter productive.  There is a road-map for getting to the release of the game and quite obviously that road-map should be followed.   More power to the modders for having fun and treating 0ad like it's a personal sandbox that allows them to change everything, but that process is/and should be - separate from getting the current vanilla 0ad code base into Beta and then release.  And the fact that in some instances I am being personally attacked for this stance and having to put people on ignore, in my mind only serves to illustrate that the desire to rip apart 0ad in favor of a Mod is a real one, and one that should be opposed.  From a project management perspective, it's just a bad idea to start doing things that are clearly out of scope and are potentially destructive to the success of the project.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, StopKillingMe said:

My point remains that all this talk of drastically changing things is counter productive.  There is a road-map for getting to the release of the game and quite obviously that road-map should be followed.   More power to the modders for having fun and treating 0ad like it's a personal sandbox that allows them to change everything, but that process is/and should be - separate from getting the current vanilla 0ad code base into Beta and then release.  And the fact that in some instances I am being personally attacked for this stance and having to put people on ignore, in my mind only serves to illustrate that the desire to rip apart 0ad in favor of a Mod is a real one, and one that should be opposed.  From a project management perspective, it's just a bad idea to start doing things that are clearly out of scope and are potentially destructive to the success of the project.

• This is a Hobby, you must know that.
• modders is part of original vision and history.
• nobody knows you, so why be attacked?
• the success comes from people from outside and modders, and a good performance.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Balancing isn't like submitting code on phabricator. Others have tried explaining it to you that this isn't some AAA or any other kind of commercial game development enterprise. When balancing an alpha game, nothing is "out of scope," especially when it is essentially one guy doing his best to make something good out of the gameplay. The team can choose to implement the whole mod, parts of it, or none at all. The team could choose to delegate the gameplay and balancing to him, someone else, a small team of balancers, or no one at all. None of this is "out of scope" as long as that's how the team wants it done. So, that argument is largely invalid. How can you say "this" or "that" doesn't belong in a game which is still in alpha? lol, come on.

[StopKillingMe]

32 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Balancing isn't like submitting code on phabricator. Others have tried explaining it to you that this isn't some AAA or any other kind of commercial game development enterprise. When balancing an alpha game, nothing is "out of scope," especially when it is essentially one guy doing his best to make something good out of the gameplay. The team can choose to implement the whole mod, parts of it, or none at all. The team could choose to delegate the gameplay and balancing to him, someone else, a small team of balancers, or no one at all. None of this is "out of scope" as long as that's how the team wants it done. So, that argument is largely invalid. How can you say "this" or "that" doesn't belong in a game which is still in alpha? lol, come on.

Very easily.  I have consumed the documentation that is published on this website - it is extremely easy to identity a suggested change that doesn't align itself with what is documented.  If you look at what is published, every unit in this game has historical reasoning and research behind the way it is implemented.  Inventing a new system to supersede that work and research, whether it becomes part of the game or not, is an abandonment of the very core of this game.  

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

4 minutes ago, StopKillingMe said:

Very easily.  I have consumed the documentation that is published on this website - it is extremely easy to identity a suggested change that doesn't align itself with what is documented.  If you look at what is published, every unit in this game has historical reasoning and research behind the way it is implemented.  Inventing a new system to supersede that work and research, whether it becomes part of the game or not, is an abandonment of the very core of this game.  

FYI for you -- that documentation is at this very moment in the process of being rewritten.

[Guest]

There was a period in time where additional content was just added on a whim (I don't know, but I won't be surprised if the majority of civ bonues were added back then). The old design document got thrown out the window unfortunately.

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/War_Story

[StopKillingMe]

6 minutes ago, (-_-) said:

There was a period in time where additional content was just added on a whim (I don't know, but I won't be surprised if the majority of civ bonues were added back then). The old design document got thrown out the window unfortunately.

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/War_Story

TY for this, I will read through it.

[StopKillingMe]

Well just to be clear on what my issue is - I don't think the things that make 0ad unique should be removed.  I believe it is possible to address MP gameplay balance issues without doing things like removing the ability to train citizen soldiers from the CC.