Lion.Kanzen Posted June 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 Mayas uses Siege Tower. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 https://youtu.be/sK9yv5wAoY0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted June 23, 2020 Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) Edit: Sorry Lion, I didn't see you just posted this video before Edited June 23, 2020 by Genava55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 Quote MURALES REVELAN VIDA MILITAR DE LOS MAYAS*** Un estudio iconográfico de los frescos de Chichén Itzá, Chacmultún, Mulchic e Ichmac revelan los sistemas de armamento, comunicación y tácticas bélicas de esta antigua cultura*** Se desconoce la conformación y abastecimiento de las tropas y si éstas eran de tiempo completo o si sólo se convocaba en tiempos de guerraUn análisis iconográfico realizado a diversos murales mayas creados en la época prehispánica, entre los años 600 y 1000 d.C., ha permitido reconstruir hipotéticamente la manera en que estuvo conformada la milicia de esta cultura; las escenas retratadas refieren aspectos como los sistemas de armamento y mando, comunicación y tácticas empleados durante los periodos de mayor apogeo de esta antigua civilización.Hasta ahora los frescos de Bonampak, en Chiapas, y de San Bartolo, en el Petén, al norte de Guatemala, constituían las expresiones más investigadas para comprender el sistema de armamento, así como las tácticas de asedio y defensa de las ciudades mayas. Sin embargo, en cuatro zonas arqueológicas del norte de la Península de Yucatán existen una serie de pinturas murales que arrojan nueva información en esta materia.Eduardo Tejeda Monroy, arqueólogo del Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia (INAH-Conaculta), presentó un estudio descriptivo de las imágenes que componen algunos murales de Chichén Itzá, Chacmultún y Mulchic, en Yucatán, además de Ichmac, en Campeche, durante su reciente participación en las VI Jornadas Permanentes de Arqueología 2010, en el Museo del Templo Mayor.ArmamentoNo obstante el deterioro de estos vestigios, fue posible establecer que los mayas de las distintas urbes utilizaban armas similares de choque y arrojadizas, como es el caso del hacha que era empleada para dar golpes altamente mortales; el palo curvo que funcionaba a manera de macana, y el lanzadardos, utilizado para atacar al enemigo a distancias de hasta 100 metros.El investigador del INAH detalló que en las pinturas plasmadas en las pilastras del Templo del Chac Mool, en la columnata noroeste del Grupo de las Mil Columnas y en el relieve del Templo Inferior de los Jaguares, en Chichén Itzá, se pueden apreciar escenas de enfrentamientos donde se empleaba esta diversidad de artefactos de combate.Para su defensa, los mayas de esta zona usaban principalmente una coraza de algodón endurecida con sal y escudos de madera, según se aprecia en los frescos pintados en las pilastras del Templo de la Mesas, en Chichén Itzá, refirió Tejeda Monroy.Conformación de los ejércitosLos dos tipos de armamento, de choque y arrojadizas, conformaban a su vez los dos cuerpos de infantería necesaria en todo ejército: la de combate corto y la de ataque a distancia, explicó el especialista.Reiteró que la milicia estaba organizada y dirigida por varios jefes de guerra, figurando entre ellos el mismo gobernante, quien se distinguía porque portaba elementos que le conferían autoridad, tales como grandes tocados de plumas, orejeras, narigueras y pectorales.Como ejemplo, citó el mural del Templo de los Jaguares, en Chichén Itzá, donde el dignatario está representado con una corona con tres grandes plumas blancas, este mismo tipo de tocado se halla también plasmado en las decoraciones de la Gran Cancha del Juego de Pelota, como símbolo de espacio sagrado. “Lo que todavía se desconoce de la conformación de las tropas mayas, es si éstas eran de tiempo completo o si sólo se convocaba a las armas en tiempos de guerra; tampoco se sabe cómo eran abastecidos los ejércitos”.ComunicaciónDe acuerdo con las imágenes plasmadas en el conjunto Las Monjas, en Chichén Itzá; en la Estructura 3, de Chacmultún, ambos en Yucatán; y en Edificio de las Pinturas, de Ichmac, en Campeche, se ve que los ejércitos mayas tenían sistemas de comunicación sonoros integrados por clarines, trompetas y tambores, abundó el arqueólogo Tejeda.Así mismo, en estos murales se ve que los soldados de un bando se pintaban el torso y el rostro para distinguirse de sus adversarios.TácticasPor las escenas representadas en los murales de estos cuatro sitios, “se infiere que los mayas manejaron las principales formaciones de combate: la fila y la columna, la primera es la formación básica de marcha y la segunda es la posición inicial de batalla”.También se pueden apreciar que los ejércitos no combatían completamente de frente, como los romanos, sino que buscaban diferentes flancos, para acorralar al enemigo y dejarlo sin posibilidades de contraataque, concluyó Tejeda Monroy. Quote MURALS REVEAL MILITARY LIFE OF THE MAYA *** An iconographic study of the frescoes at Chichén Itzá, Chacmultún, Mulchic and Ichmac reveals the weaponry, communication and warfare tactics of this ancient culture *** The formation and supply of troops and whether they were full-time or only called up in times of war is unknown An iconographic analysis of various Mayan murals created in the pre-Hispanic era, between 600 and 1000 AD, has made it possible to hypothetically reconstruct the way in which the militia of this culture was formed; the scenes portrayed refer to aspects such as the systems of armament and command, communication and tactics used during the periods of greatest apogee of this ancient civilization. Until now, the frescos at Bonampak, in Chiapas, and San Bartolo, in the Petén, north of Guatemala, were the most researched expressions to understand the weapon system, as well as the siege and defense tactics of the Mayan cities. However, in four archaeological zones in the north of the Yucatan Peninsula there are a series of mural paintings that provide new information on this subject. Eduardo Tejeda Monroy, archaeologist from the National Institute of Anthropology and History (INAH-Conaculta), presented a descriptive study of the images that make up some murals at Chichén Itzá, Chacmultún and Mulchic, in Yucatán, as well as Ichmac, in Campeche, during his recent participation in the VI Permanent Archaeological Conference 2010, at the Templo Mayor Museum. Armament In spite of the deterioration of these vestiges, it was possible to establish that the Mayans of the different cities used similar shock and throwing weapons, as it is the case of the axe that was used to give highly mortal blows; the curved stick that worked as a baton, and the launcher, used to attack the enemy at distances of up to 100 meters. The INAH researcher explained that in the paintings on the pilasters of the Temple of Chac Mool, in the northwest colonnade of the Group of a Thousand Columns and in the relief of the Lower Temple of the Jaguars, in Chichén Itzá, scenes of confrontations can be appreciated where this diversity of combat artifacts were used. For their defense, the Mayans of this area mainly used a cotton armor hardened with salt and wooden shields, as seen in the frescoes painted on the pilasters of the Temple of the Tables, in Chichén Itzá, Tejeda Monroy said. Conformation of the armies The two types of weaponry, shock and throw, were in turn the two corps of infantry needed in any army: the short combat and the remote attack, the specialist explained. He reiterated that the militia was organized and directed by several warlords, including the ruler himself, who distinguished himself by wearing elements that gave him authority, such as large feathered headdresses, earmuffs, nose rings and pecs. As an example, he cited the mural of the Temple of the Jaguars, in Chichén Itzá, where the dignitary is represented with a crown with three large white feathers, this same type of headdress is also found in the decorations of the Great Court of the Ball Game, as a symbol of sacred space. "What is still unknown about the conformation of the Mayan troops is if they were full time or if they were only called to arms in times of war; it is also unknown how the armies were supplied. Communication According to the images captured in Las Monjas, in Chichén Itzá; in Structure 3, in Chacmultún, both in Yucatán; and in Edificio de las Pinturas, in Ichmac, in Campeche, it can be seen that the Mayan armies had sound communication systems integrated by bugles, trumpets and drums, the archaeologist Tejeda said. Likewise, in these murals one can see that the soldiers of one side painted their torso and face to distinguish themselves from their adversaries. Tactics From the scenes depicted in the murals of these four sites, "it is inferred that the Mayans handled the main combat formations: the row and the column, the first being the basic marching formation and the second being the initial battle position. It can also be seen that the armies did not fight completely from the front, as the Romans did, but that they looked for different flanks, to corner the enemy and leave them without any possibility of counterattack, concluded Tejeda Monroy. https://inah.gob.mx/boletines/2320-murales-revelan-vida-militar-de-los-mayas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrettin Posted June 23, 2020 Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 @Lion.Kanzen What did you mean by a "vassal system"? You said "like the Seleucid colonies", so mini-settlements? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Andrettin said: @Lion.Kanzen What did you mean by a "vassal system"? You said "like the Seleucid colonies", so mini-settlements? No Its otherwise , similar to Japan gameplay in AoE 3 you are client kingdom of other faction. It depends on the context in which I said it, I don't remember mentioning it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 8 hours ago, Genava55 said: Edit: Sorry Lion, I didn't see you just posted this video before I posted disorderly because i found first this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2020 Mayan pottery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 First version released for download https://www.moddb.com/mods/mayas-0-ad/downloads/maya-preclassic-0ad 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duileoga Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 03/03/2021 at 5:02 AM, Lion.Kanzen said: Me ha dado una alegría nada más verlo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 23/06/2020 at 4:58 AM, Lion.Kanzen said: Mayas uses Siege Tower. https://journals.openedition.org/civilisations/3400 One source. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: https://journals.openedition.org/civilisations/3400 One source. I was very tempted to add it to the mod, but I didn't, maybe for something from the classical period and in the post-classical period for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 More sources and forum discussion about this controversy. TW Center forum. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?787292-Medieval-Mexican-Siege-Towers Some books https://books.google.hn/books?id=LwAmDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA242&lpg=PA242&dq=siege+tower+mayan+coggins+1984&source=bl&ots=7jXHku0jep&sig=ACfU3U1A1h00DzFWOTQzcOE0V55gcST-vA&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjapbyEiKHvAhVPmVkKHezvAngQ6AEwAXoECAMQAg https://books.google.hn/books?id=LwAmDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA242&lpg=PA242&dq=siege+tower+mayan+coggins+1984&source=bl&ots=7jXHku0jep&sig=ACfU3U1A1h00DzFWOTQzcOE0V55gcST-vA&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjapbyEiKHvAhVPmVkKHezvAngQ6AEwAXoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=siege tower mayan coggins 1984&f=false 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 On 27/02/2021 at 4:53 AM, Lopess said: First version released for download https://www.moddb.com/mods/mayas-0-ad/downloads/maya-preclassic-0ad what about this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: what about this... In version 0.2 with improvements of props and texture so I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 On 23/06/2020 at 4:58 AM, Lion.Kanzen said: Mayas uses Siege Tower. @Lopess podria ser una plataforma de asedio, como una torre de asedio pero sin ruedas. se monta y desmonta como hacian los aztecas...(supocision mia) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 Quote Tollan and its Toltec capital of Tula in central Mexico used large armies in the tens of thousands, concentrated projectile fire of spear throwers, obsidian blades on wood clubs and swords, siege warfare with firing platforms, and watercraft, when necessary. One leader, Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl, may have invaded Yucatan territory after 1100 and spread full-scale warfare into the region from the site of Chichén Itza. Itza fought with Coba for control of Yucatan for several centuries. The Itza eventually prevailed in a conflict that saw the fortifications, attrition, and logistics of the Coba defeated by Itza Mexican military might. However, both sides had exhausted their resources, and soon a series of smaller kingdoms returned control of the peninsula to Maya polities by 1350. https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/08/14/mesoamerican-warfare-1200-b-c-e-1521-c-e/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/08/14/mesoamerican-warfare-1200-b-c-e-1521-c-e/ Another scene may portray an actual siege, involving siege towers against a fortified hilly position. Standing on these scaffold-like constructions are soldiers throwing their projectiles at their opponents. Some of the warriors have jumped off the towers into the fortification and are battling the defenders (Coggins 1984:159, Figure 17; Miller 1977:207, Figures 8, 215). Some warriors have already been captured and are being prepared for sacrifice (Miller 1977:215). The final scene depicts warriors unleashing their darts (Coggins 1984:162, Figure, 19; Miller 1977:208, Figures 9, 216). It is unclear, however, if actual combat is shawn here, or rather a portrayal of the military capabilities of the two groups. We might even be looking at a manual of military drill (Miller 1977:216). The village scene in the same panel shows conquest and exile. Women carrying their belongings on their back are leaving the village, looking back in despair at their dwellings (Miller 1977:217). Considering the more tropical scenery it is possible these scenes depict events that occurred in the Maya lowlands, perhaps in the Petén (Miller 1977:218; Wren and Schmidt 1991:209). https://journals.openedition.org/civilisations/3400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 18 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: @Lopess podria ser una plataforma de asedio, como una torre de asedio pero sin ruedas. se monta y desmonta como hacian los aztecas...(supocision mia) Me pregunto por qué no usan ruedas, el concepto práctico ya estaba más allá de los conocidos juguetes en forma de animales. https://www.yucatan.com.mx/merida/el-inah-restaura-milenaria-pieza-en-manos-del-incay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lopess said: Me pregunto por qué no usan ruedas, el concepto práctico ya estaba más allá de los conocidos juguetes en forma de animales. https://www.yucatan.com.mx/merida/el-inah-restaura-milenaria-pieza-en-manos-del-incay voy a buscar la imagen completa. no se aprecian ruedas de hecho ya casi me imagino la estructura. es como la base de esto y este. 4 levels no wheels.. it look like they climb for an ladder. have some protection (white spaces.) Edited March 15, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 there is two of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 I had already made a tower like this, but I ended up losing. One thing that made me imagine, the first time I saw them, that there must be some kind of military engineering that we are not aware of was used there: wheels or planks to transport the tower to the besieged wall or Mantel to protect the builders up to the end of its construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) This kind of music suits great. reminds me of the Jurassic Park soundtrack at times. Obviously the difference that most worked (polished). Edited March 17, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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