Towers and Outposts

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

I just wanted to quickly mention that freestanding towers outside of the Roman Empire generally didn't exist, and having them as part of the game aside from just editor buildings would be an inaccurate portrayal of civilisations aside from the Romans.  They already have a limited utility with being able to be built only in friendly territory, and walls with their turrets more or less cover that function already.  If towers are removed, maps can (and should already) be better designed to allow players to wall since that would be the only viable defence aside from a fortress.  Also, outposts in their current iteration are inaccurate as far as I see (I could be incorrect on this matter).  I will admit that they provide a fun gameplay options with their line of sight and neutral territory capabilities, however.  The only reason that both of these exist is because of former RTS games like Age of Empires having them.    

[Nescio]

1 hour ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

I just wanted to quickly mention that freestanding towers outside of the Roman Empire generally didn't exist, and having them as part of the game aside from just editor buildings would be an inaccurate portrayal of civilisations aside from the Romans.  They already have a limited utility with being able to be built only in friendly territory, and walls with their turrets more or less cover that function already.  If towers are removed, maps can (and should already) be better designed to allow players to wall since that would be the only viable defence aside from a fortress.  Also, outposts in their current iteration are inaccurate as far as I see (I could be incorrect on this matter).  I will admit that they provide a fun gameplay options with their line of sight and neutral territory capabilities, however.  The only reason that both of these exist is because of former RTS games like Age of Empires having them.    

You're completely right, free standing towers belong to the Medieval times, not really to Antiquity. Unfortunately, the AI is unable to construct walls, and if outposts and towers were to be removed, the AI would be significantly more vulnerable than it is already.

[Stan`]

I think that in the MilleniumAD Mod Norse do not have the towers.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Gameplay wise, unless we have alternatives for gameplay.

[Sundiata]

@Thorfinn the Shallow Minded I think you're generally correct about the towers. It is mostly just a (fun) RTS convention...

I think there is some debate possible about the outposts though. They look just like modern hunting posts or observation posts, which are used all over the world. It's just a simple timber construction providing some elevation, and thus an improved line of sight. They can be put up in a day, and would be very useful in any drawn out conflict. They wouldn't leave any trace in the archaeological record on account of their light design, and might have been such a no-brainer/standard/considdered too insignificant to mention to appear richely in written history. Just speculation on my part though.  

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

The AI does have some limitations at the moment, yet the end resulting gameplay should not be dictated by the current issues.  As the AI develops, it can use better defence algorithms.  The AI would still have access to fortresses to assert a major defensive presence and Civic Centres to a lesser extent.  Removal of towers would force players to make more strategic placements of their defences due to the large investment required.  

I will admit that the argument against outposts is less substantial.  I find that they offer interesting strategic possibilities for games and it is highly plausible that they were used to some extent; I just am calling to question the fact that 0 A.D. is practically copy and pasting mechanics from Age of Kings with that aspect specifically.

[Sundiata]

2 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

I just am calling to question the fact that 0 A.D. is practically copy and pasting mechanics from Age of Kings with that aspect specifically.

Like those tiny rectangular fields, farmed right in the centre of town, next to the Civic Centre? :p 

I would personally love to see more differentiation from the classic RTS conventions, as long as it's sensible and history based  

[Lion.Kanzen]

5 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

The AI does have some limitations at the moment, yet the end resulting gameplay should not be dictated by the current issues.  As the AI develops, it can use better defence algorithms.  The AI would still have access to fortresses to assert a major defensive presence and Civic Centres to a lesser extent.  Removal of towers would force players to make more strategic placements of their defences due to the large investment required.  

I will admit that the argument against outposts is less substantial.  I find that they offer interesting strategic possibilities for games and it is highly plausible that they were used to some extent; I just am calling to question the fact that 0 A.D. is practically copy and pasting mechanics from Age of Kings with that aspect specifically.

They need fix wall placement and new alternatives, like traps, mantles..etc

[Gu6tera]

Did you guys enjoyed Stronghold crusader, I did, so wouldn't it be cool if there are some moat mechanics, also the tower selection and labors around/in the buildings, and you can see what are they doing. Also the war dogs and oil smelters. The wall building was good.