Lion.Kanzen Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 I don't like that interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyrth Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 16 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: I don't like that interface. I semi-agree. The UI is already overwhelming with buttons and info. The background is bringing more eye-strain. However, I like the minimap in the corner. In fact, I'd take any corner as long as it's in the corner... not alongside the Unit/Building control buttons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minohaka Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Is the Petra Bot supposed to work in 0abc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) AI works pretty good on this mod than any other except the build bugs. If you want to play against a challenging AI this mod retains the aggressiveness of A22 AI which is building different types of combat units though the magnitude of attack is much lesser maybe due to metal requirements needed for most if not all combat units. In comparison with Vox it’s better to play this mod in single player because Vox AI doesn’t make a corral, research cavalry tech then produce cavalries. I like the unit balancing too though it seems like slingers are quite deadly still and mostly being produced by the AI. The battles are really good in SP that you need to produce counter units to really win convincingly. Once the art people have specific structures for each Civ this mod is really promising in many aspects in either SP and MP. Yes @minohaka Petra bot works really well! I’ve been playing this mod the last couple of days now. The fun thing about this mid is that “wololo” wild animals can be ordered or shal we say herded which is A22 feature. Since Vox has implimented a different wild animal lure meaning it lures wild animals depending if the lurer is within the wild animals LOS(revised by user1 pro balance mod). What I like with Vox is the Kushite and corral trainables but the mod is really more for MP games. DE mod has one having the best fun game but if the AI don’t win battles their aura production seems very slow (they don’t build statues) and resulting to longer teching to P3 and P4. Edited October 23, 2017 by Servo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minohaka Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Servo said: AI works pretty good on this mod than any other except the build bugs. If you want to play against a challenging AI this mod retains the aggressiveness of A22 AI which is building different types of combat units though the magnitude of attack is much lesser maybe due to metal requirements needed for most if not all combat units. In comparison with Vox it’s better to play this mod in single player because Vox AI doesn’t make a corral, research cavalry tech then produce cavalries. I like the unit balancing too though it seems like slingers are quite deadly still and mostly being produced by the AI. The battles are really good in SP that you need to produce counter units to really win convincingly. Once the art people have specific structures for each Civ this mod is really promising in many aspects in either SP and MP. Well it doesn't for me, the AI doesn't build anything it stays only with their Civic centre, also the menu in the upper right corner is covered by the mini map that doesn't seem right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minohaka Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 I launched the mod on windows after trying a few times on linux and it's throwing some errors or one error. Maybe this has something to do with the AI not working for me. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Is prefer have the interface follow the conventions. why? Because we don't read from bottom to top. The font don't match with the time frame and looks very... awful In a 2d art specially text reading / composition the right bottom is most important point of view. Even tv or interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 39 minutes ago, minohaka said: I launched the mod on windows after trying a few times on linux and it's throwing some errors or one error. Maybe this has something to do with the AI not working for me. Any ideas? That map has no resources near the cc. I guess that's why the AI is broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minohaka Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, stanislas69 said: That map has no resources near the cc. I guess that's why the AI is broken. It's a special map "Survival of the Fittest". I only play random maps does that have anything to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Oh the survival of the fittest map. Well you have the starting resources then you have to defend yourself against massive AI attack. Gaia unit spams so is the treasures below with one woman collecting. Try other maps especially the skirmish ones up to 4 players or any other random maps on the most 6 player. Btw @Nescio the Judean slingers have 70 range or longer than Briton slingers having around 40 at max upgrade. Edited October 23, 2017 by Servo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted October 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Thank you all for your replies, I really do appreciate feedback! 13 hours ago, minohaka said: After reading the readme, scanning over the readme.pdf and briefly reading over the posts on this thread I can't figured out if the AI is supposed to work on this mod? 12 hours ago, minohaka said: Is the Petra Bot supposed to work in 0abc? Yes, it is, and it actually does (mostly). It even makes better use of some new features (e.g. unit rank training researches) than I do myself If, however, I notice the AI is not capable of using something important, I typically revert it; for instance, there were more technologies at the wonder in an earlier version of this mod, however, the AI never builds wonders (nor does it under the default “0 A.D. Empires Ascendant”), not even when it has tens of thousands of resources, therefore I postponed those additional technologies. Note: I've not yet figured out whether or not the AI does build those new specialized buildings I introduced in the past few days. The AI can and does build Persian cavalry stables and Mauryan elephant stables, so I suppose it should be capable of handling them for other factions as well. If not, then I'll probably postpone those structures as well. 13 hours ago, minohaka said: Also is it supposed to work with the current ongoing Alpha 23 dev version? I mostly play/test the current Alpha and decided to install Alpha 22 (on linux environment) to try the mod after I got errors in the A23 one. No, although I briefly considered making it compatible with the svn version, I decided to use the latest stable release (A22) instead; I had to choose, making it compatible with both is impossible. When A23 is officially released as the next version, I'll update 0abc accordingly. 13 hours ago, minohaka said: PS: I got it to launch in A22, but the AI doesn't do anything it stays with the units it starts with. Is that the expected behavior or is it something to do maybe with the version I was previously playing on this box? That probably has to do with the specific map. Personally I only play random random maps; some of them are test maps which work neither under “0 A.D. Empires Ascendant” nor 0abc; a few are heavily scripted and work under “0 A.D. Empires Ascendant” but not under 0abc; most maps work under both “0 A.D. Empires Ascendant” and 0abc. 12 hours ago, sphyrth said: I semi-agree. The UI is already overwhelming with buttons and info. The background is bringing more eye-strain. However, I like the minimap in the corner. In fact, I'd take any corner as long as it's in the corner... not alongside the Unit/Building control buttons. The GUI change was made necessary because the current GUI does not support more than 24 structures (and some factions already exceeded that), so I had to redesign it. The minimap I detached from the central panel because I needed more space. However, I suppose I could spin off the GUI changes into a separate auxiliary mod. 12 hours ago, Servo said: except the build bugs. Recently I experienced a few myself, these are quite annoying. I don't understand why they happen, it's not a systematic error. If I build a row of five houses it typically works fine, but occassionally one is left in a state of 100%-but-nevertheless-unfinished-limbo. I *guess* it might have something to do with overlap with other structures or objects. 12 hours ago, Servo said: What I like with Vox is the Kushite If the Kushites are included in “0 A.D. Empires Ascendant”, I'll also include them into 0abc afterwards, but not beforehand; the same applies to any other faction(s). Despite containing thousands of files, 0abc is relatively small in size (a few MB), and I like it to keep that way, hence no new visual actors for new structures. 9 hours ago, Servo said: Btw @Nescio the Judean slingers have 70 range or longer than Briton slingers having around 40 at max upgrade. Yes, that's correct; there are several types of spearmen, archers, slingers, swordsmen, etc. Also note that unit ranks and upgrades do not increase attack range. 0abc's ranged infantry maximum attack ranges are currently: throwing axeman (unused): 1*15m=15m javelinist: 2*15m=30m stone slinger (brit, celt, iber, pers): 3*15m=45m archers (longbow, composite bow, crossbow): 4*15m=60m lead bullet slinger (athen, cart, mace, ptol, spart): 5*15m=75m The rationale for this is that classical authors (e.g. Xenophon) repeatedly stress than slingers easily outranged and outshot archers, but also that non-Greek stone slingers had only about half as much range as Greek-style slingers (who used tiny lead bullets). Again, I'd like to emphasize that the 0abc-readme.pdf contains more detailed information. Edited October 23, 2017 by Nescio ce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Infantry citizen soldiers can promote to rank 10 only then experience continue to cycle. I got some irritating crashes and maybe my fault of using wololo but the culprit seems the kenel house(britons). I built it to garrison my wololoed dog. Once I deleted it the game works smoothly again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted October 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) Many thanks for pointing these out! I really appreciate it someone is testing and checking what I've done 6 hours ago, Servo said: Infantry citizen soldiers can promote to rank 10 only then experience continue to cycle. Now fixed. 6 hours ago, Servo said: I got some irritating crashes and maybe my fault of using wololo but the culprit seems the kenel house(britons). I built it to garrison my wololoed dog. Once I deleted it the game works smoothly again. What is a “wololoed dog”? Garrisoning Briton war dogs into Briton dog kennels does not cause any problems as far as I'm aware. 0abc updated: new resource: silver Spoiler silver can be acquired by: selling other resources (barter, market) traders (gain is currently any combination of silver and other resources) catafalques, palaces, and wonders grant a 1 silver per second trickle killing enemy heroes: healer and infantry heroes grant 50 silver cavalry heroes grant 100 silver chariot heroes grant 150 silver elephant heroes grant 200 silver killing promoted units (with x the rank (which can be 0 to 12)): healers and infantry grant 1x silver (champions 2x) camels and cavalry grant 2x silver (champions 4x) bigae (two-horsed chariots) grant 4x silver (champions 8x) quadrigae (four-horse chariots) grant 5x silver (champions 10x) elephants (two-horse chariots) grant 6x silver (champions 12x) looting structures: centres grant 200 silver libraries grant 100 silver lighthouses grant 60 silver markets grant 30 silver palaces grant 150 silver temples grant 40 silver wonders grant 400 silver silver can be used for: buying other resources (barter, market) espionage: bribing now cost: 250 silver without counterespionage (instead of 500 metal) 500 silver with counterespionage (instead of 750 metal) siege weapons can no longer be captured; they also cost food but have somewhat more health Roman stone thrower costs 50 stone extra but inflicts +20% crush damage Persian battering ram costs 100 wood extra but has +20% maximum health disabled Carthaginian embassies (I actually liked them, they added some interesting flavour to the game, however, they also penalized Carthage unnecessary when compared to other factions, therefore I felt compelled to disable them, unfortunately); instead they have an infantry barracks and a cavalry stables (as do most other factions) new town phase structure: military shipyard: available to athen, cart, mace, pers, ptol, rome, sele, spart constructs all wargalleys economic docks now: construct fishing boats and merchant ships (all factions) construct war barges (brit, gaul, iber, maur) and fireships (iber) serves as a dropsite for all types of resources is a market for trader routes included Alexandermb's new visual actors: Macedonian gastraphetes crossbowman Mauryan battering ram city phase now costs 500 food, wood, metal, and stone (instead of 0, 0, 750, 750, respectively many other minor changes (see 0abc-readme.pdf) On 23/10/2017 at 2:02 AM, sphyrth said: I semi-agree. The UI is already overwhelming with buttons and info. The background is bringing more eye-strain. If you open 0abc/art/textures/ui/session/ and delete panel_left.png and panel_right.png, the game will simply resize and use A22's default background images. Edited October 24, 2017 by Nescio ce 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Ok good. Now I'm going to make another game for your new update and new features. One thing Im observing about this mod is the AI behavior especially the magnitude of the the attacking force. I know it was really massive in A21 and haven't gotten to test the A22 vanilla. I previously had a game on a naval map which has a choke point and most AI vessels are stuck, so maybe they can't produce massive units. Some AIs are really producing combination units (Cavs and Infantry) even before P3. The Ptolomy and Romans seem producing only slingers and swordsmen. Lets check this out with this new update and hope that with extra resources they can produce more units. I always play against 3 to 4 very hard AI so that they can trade and keep producing units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted October 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 If the AI proves to be incapable of handling those specialized buildings, I'll probably revert those. I haven't tested it properly yet, because I'm still editing many other aspects, such as the GUI: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) I’m still trying to do a naval maps so I can see how all units fare but I guess in land maps they’re doing really well. I like the combat activity and seemed to have good balance. It takes a little while before units live or die and not very long which imo is really good. With regards to GUI for ease of clicks on MP game it would be best to put the mini map in the middle below. It’s easier to drag down/left the mouse than pushing it up or right ways. The combat unit unit interface in the bottom near right is IMO have better location while the build/research interface on the lower left. Since the game is war the combat interface units must be the priority and the easier to access it’s interface the better. If you happen to play RoN imo it has one of the best and very efficient GUI. It has economic interface on the top left including number of resource gatherers as well as market and trading activity. The top middle can have the tech research and progress if the Civ logo can be moved. Just my personal opinion. Edited October 24, 2017 by Servo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyrth Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 He has a 4:3 screen like me. And the Extra Resources problem I had with DE is showing up on his UI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 This must be useful to you. https://waywardstrategist.com/2015/05/04/lets-talk-rts-user-interface-part-1-interview-with-dave-pottinger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Uh uh the mod is bugged, the AI doesn’t work well. They don’t produce units and I’m not sure when they will start. They just keep gathering and if they see a water they build docks immediately. I think you must have different version number just in case the new update won’t work do we can revert back to the ones that was working. Every update tends to replace the previous ones therefore we can’t easily revert back. Edited October 25, 2017 by Servo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted October 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 12 hours ago, Servo said: With regards to GUI for ease of clicks on MP game it would be best to put the mini map in the middle below. It’s easier to drag down/left the mouse than pushing it up or right ways. The combat unit unit interface in the bottom near right is IMO have better location while the build/research interface on the lower left. Since the game is war the combat interface units must be the priority and the easier to access it’s interface the better. If you happen to play RoN imo it has one of the best and very efficient GUI. It has economic interface on the top left including number of resource gatherers as well as market and trading activity. The top middle can have the tech research and progress if the Civ logo can be moved. Just my personal opinion. Could you upload a RoN screenshot? 12 hours ago, sphyrth said: He has a 4:3 screen like me. Unfortunately not, I wish I did (or even better: a 5:4 screen); the only option for my notebook was 3840×2160, therefore I'm stuck with an inefficient 16:9 widescreen. However, I tend to use half-width windows (press Windows+Left and Windows+Right), which allow me to use two programs next to each other. This is also why I resized the central panel from 1024px to 960px (because 960*2=1920 and 960*4=3840). 10 hours ago, Servo said: I think you must have different version number just in case the new update won’t work do we can revert back to the ones that was working. Every update tends to replace the previous ones therefore we can’t easily revert back. Actually I do, I'm currently working on version .52; besides, git keeps all history and easily allows you to load earlier versions. On github, open the repository (https://github.com/0abc/0abc-unified.git), click “commits”, then scroll down to the version you want (e.g. Commits on Oct 11, 2017), click the blue alphanumerical code at the end of the row, then click “browse files”, and finally “clone or download”: “download zip”. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 If you goggle it there are clearer pictures. I took pix using my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Lol I made that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servo Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Nice Lion but one important thing you did not emphasize is the commerce section on the upper left that based on the picture is still not fully opened. Some commerce activity can be shown if you expand it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted October 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, Servo said: Uh uh the mod is bugged, the AI doesn’t work well. And I figured out what's wrong: I moved structure templates from simulation/templates/structures/{civ}_* to simulation/templates/structures/{civ}/* to have a cleaner repository. However, I just checked (grep) the AI files, and it seems structures/{civ}_ is hardcoded in them, so it's hardly surprising the AI doesn't build anything. So now I'll either have to move back over a hundred templates, or tweak several lines in a few AI files ... [EDIT]: 0abc updated, returned structures to their previous location, the AI is now capable of building again. Edited October 25, 2017 by Nescio 0abc updated 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted October 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) 0abc updated: included Alexandermb's bolt shooters and stone throwers with crews: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22975-polybolos-animations-for-infantry/ silver is now required for several technologies (instead of any other resources): share vision (250), share dropsites (500), unlock spies (1000), counterespionage (2000) several other minor corrections Edited October 27, 2017 by Nescio ce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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