easy extra layer for multiplayer : elexis's clan vs Hannibal's clan --> let's replay punic war

[JC (naval supremacist)]

Hi !!!

I dont remember if i share this idea before but anyway ..  basicaly its to input a campaign mode in multiplayer

IDEA : Imagine, 2 players want to recreate an historical war , i.e  the punic wars, this game - a campaign - comes with 12 linked scenario games/mission inside (with its starting ressources, cities , and units) .. a bit like single campaign on AoE .. but even more ..

In the lobby :  2 good players start a campaign, they open a room . At that point, the campaign start with 2 "emperors" .  Each emperor opens some slots to enrole "generals" (not too bad players) , which enrole for their own "commanders" (better not ultra noobs)  .. so 3 levels of power.   So the campaign can start like a 11 vs 14 players (or even 5 vs 3 vs 12 players if there is 3 empires .. whatever ..  if the campaign is " Corsica vs Sardine" it would probably start with 1vs1 and both "emperors" are nothing more than the boss of 2 rival villages )

.. the campaign starts..

- A map : the 2 Emperors see the same map , i.e Europe + north Africa, and its split in many territories (like the board game RISK or the video game DUNE 2000 ) with their respective terrirtory colored.   So the 2 Emperors each make a STRATEGIC decision to invade a territory or another one .. or even  .. more ..  its just a question of investing ressources in a game/mission .. so the emperor can even split all its campaign ressources to invade all the neigbour territory in same time .. but may be silly and useless.  On the map , the forces on field will be represented by little figurines like every Emperor like to play with !

- A mission : each mission/battle is a game (like those one know now)  with a target (kill all , capture city ...) . The "emperor" will receive the benefit of the mission if won (extra ressources gathered, slaves (captured units) & city captured and survived units .. so he can re-invest this into the next missions and take the right decisions.

- After mission : the generals can transmit information to the Emperor by typing it the Roman room (hosted in lobby) and evaluate forces in presence.  If the enemy retreat, General say how much units go out of the map and indicate direction. Each General can put figurines on the map so the Emperor has an Idea of the forces in the region or nearby territories.  Ennemy Emperor and his Generals are represented by figurines.. like for other informations ..  only the players will evaluate the situation.  So a evil Emperor will make his ennemy think that he lost all but, he just reatreat all his forces only in a purpose to massive counter-attack in poorely protected territory. So players may collect most information they can to put this information on the Emperor's map after a game in order to give the Emperor best idea of the real situation.

- The timing : for emperors, its not real-time playing when its on MAP mode, the results will be displayed only when a game/battle is finished with its results. Each emperor has the power to "PAUSE" the campaign (but not a game !) and resume it later or even 1 week later .. time to discuss with his generals in the lobby-hosted  "Rome forum"  or "Carthagian Hall" . On the map, the Emperor can see (thx to information given my generals ) if ennemy decided to attack on sides (like Hannibal did) or rather decide to send all his forces towards Capital (like Romans did). So a player can have the duty to build extra walls the more he can (after defeat a nearby gaia civ full of Stone) if the Emperor see on the map huge naval forces naving directly to Carthage.

- The players :  for sure, AS ITS possible to "pause" a campaign" (so it will be nothing more a saved file on lobby or on HD of the 2 emperors) , any player can let his SLOT and position  to another player if he can't play anymore or if he's not in the lobby anymore. A emperor can allow or refuse a new "General" as a "General" can refuse a new "Commander".  Exactly like does a HOSTER now

- A territory :  the whole map are splitted in piece, as said, its a territory for a game .  The gaia , will be nothing more than the local civ , so for exemple, Hannibal should know that he will have to fight or ally iberians if he wants to avoid NAVAL with Rome.   Rather than having to build whole city from scratch .. An invader will find a couple of cities on the territory , i.e  Syracuse (typical greek with some historical monuments ) , and will capture it for its own benefit and ressources. So a typical mission will not start with that 10 mins building phase .. players will find beautifull cities already builded (basically, some typical munuments with some generic stuff around with roads) to capture. But in germany campaings, maybe building new city can occurs .. depends the mission.

- Gameplay : the Emperor can move his presence from 1 territory to another NEIGBHOUR territory between each turn of game , so he can take command of a battle if he wants. So the Emperor can swith from MAP mode to MISSION mode (= the battle = the game one play now in 0ad20) .  Generals, will be related to a game/battle as the chief of the Commanders on the field.  Each Commanders will be a typical player with its own units (exactly like  a player in the actual games one have now) and CC's .. The General ( a super player)  of the mission can take control of Commanders units , as Emperor can do so if he's on the territory of the running game. AI's PETRA can play a Commander role.

- Incarnation :   A commander will be a Champion , A general will be a Hero , the Emperor will be God so not incarnated .. but will die (ALL Campaign over !) if he lose a game/ battle while he was on that territory ..  so the Emperor will take HUGE risk to take control of a game and losing it rather letting a General do the stuff. If a General dies in a game/mission,  the best Commander becomes the General.  A General or the Emperor can retreat from a mission/game .. not a Commander .  When all Commanders of a territory (those of the loser team of course) die , the mission is over. And the survival General has to recruit new players into the lobby to play next missions. Beside this, seing

- Aura  :  each players can take control of units if its in RANGE aura.  A commander (a champion in the game) will put him self into CC to control all units on his CC aura .  While go attack , he will have to GO in expedition with units to command them in a limited range.  A General ( Hero on in the game) will work the same way but his AURA will be far wider and if all CC of his Commanders are connected ... he can control all the ally CC territory.   Each Commander will have his units with its own COLOR, but a General can , at any moment, set units on his own COLOR to take control them .    If the Emperor comes into a mission, he will bring his own Imperial Guard to give a hand but can also, as do the General, overtake control on units.

- How-to :  basically, it will be nothing more than "glueing" traditional games together with long term ressources management through a board map with figurine on it.  The game will be micro (like now) and with a new macro aspect (the emperor map)  and just let some players over-taking control units on other ally players during the micro. 

- Contribution :  modders can create maps and scenarios.  If possible, also short animation between each mission or after the final one . Ie : the fall of Baal statue from a wall , or the incineration of Roman Emperor in the mouth of Baal Statue.

- Furter :  Recreate the whole 500BC to 0AD period and thus titan campaign with 12 civs and some gaias tribes/civs.  Civs will ally each together like a big FFA in order to be ultimate civ but still , like in chess, if emperor dies, the team-civ lose.

[sanderd17]

There are some nice ideas here, but also some that need improvement.

At a start of a campaign, an emperor should get some time to arrange his army, before the attacks can start. When an attacker picks a target, the attacker and defender at that target should be fixed until the game is played. You can't require people to be online always. So there should be some rule that both players at least have to be f.e. 1 hour online per 2 days. And that a game can only be refused a few times. If one of the players doesn't come online, or refuses too much, the game should be against an AI.

It would need some server to keep track of all this. So it's not that easy to implement. Maybe it's easier to start with a singleplayer campaign, and then extend the maps to multiplayer.

[JC (naval supremacist)]

Hi Sanderd ,

3 hours ago, sanderd17 said:

At a start of a campaign, an emperor should get some time to arrange his army, before the attacks can start. When an attacker picks a target, the attacker and defender at that target should be fixed until the game is played. You can't require people to be online always.

yes, exact. And  to summarize the thing : 

the micro level of the game = the games one are playing in 0ad20 multiplayer

the macro level = the level i suggest to implement = have a view of the campaign in the form of a board map with figurines on it.

The macro will be like a construction of micro games

- The micro level will run like now but if a player resign during the game, then his units just goes to ally players (or ally AI)

- The maco (which should just look like a board game with some static background decor ) will be updated after each "micro" match (aka mission, aka game) .  This map will be updated with information reported from the players . How ? Just writting some stuff in tchat .. the Emperor .. will drag-drop some figurines on the board map (splitted into colored-conquered territories - like game Risk) . And will be able to write labels ..  I dunno ..  something like that just to have idea of global situation.

3 hours ago, sanderd17 said:

You can't require people to be online always. So there should be some rule that both players at least have to be f.e. 1 hour online per 2 days. And that a game can only be refused a few times. If one of the players doesn't come online, or refuses too much, the game should be against an AI.

Not necessary, as said.  I.e : elexis is Emperor of Rome , he can pause a campaign (macro level ) , he can enrole limited number of Generals (Generals can enrole Commanders)  before each micro game .. but only 1 General for each micro-game ; a General command a whole team, a commander plays 1 slot.  A general , can for sure , play many micro-games as long he's successful as he dont dies (incarnated by a hero in a game). Killing a very good general (good player) could be a good strategy.  If a player dont appear in the lobby or disconnect , the emperor (Julius CEsar played by elexis) will just let the slot of Scipion the African (previously played by ffm) Hero OPENED for another candidate .  If a player dies (Commander, General or Emperor) through his incaranted Hero in the game, he won"t be able to be re-incarnate in another role.  Ie : if ffm (Scipion, an hero) dies while a battle, elexis will lost this player and the Hero.  He would have to rely on other players found in the lobby. Or he can pause the campaing as long as he wants .. basically, only the Emperors has to be online .. Elexis can still designated a successor and let this player be the Emperor of Rome during the campaign.

 

4 hours ago, sanderd17 said:

It would need some server to keep track of all this. So it's not that easy to implement. Maybe it's easier to start with a singleplayer campaign, and then extend the maps to multiplayer.

Just save the campaing in a file while no micro-games are running.

 

[av93]

Meanwhile, a simplier version can be made. It's a matter of organization and some map making, no need for new features.

A tournament could be made with x maps (I would say 3) with 3vs3 players (for example). Each tournament could be a historical one with three major battles with or without some triggers. The winning side could have some bonus units/eco/whatever you want for the next scenario.That could be announced in the homepage and other media. Broadcasting, youtubers and polls (for who will win)  could add some excitement, and could bea way to make some advertising for the game. Then, every game it's finished, it could be a new article/video explaining the battle and showing the results.

Balancing could be the only problem. But just for fun.

Edited April 24, 2016 by av93

[JC (naval supremacist)]

yes may be cool to have a super-computer 16 cores to host a 16vs16 where each player can control a something like 500 units.  Recreating a huge antic battle can be a very nice promotion of the game !

________

 

To come back to my idea, i will just add this new element :  imagine Greece map is splitted in 15 territories in a Pelopenese WAR between Sparta league vs Athen League . One can imagine that controling a particular territory will bring a particular benefit : ie  : control a territory with a big neutral city on it will gave u ressources automatic ressources, but also more pop cap for your all war campaing ; controlling a terroritory with a big Harbour on it brings extra source of food from seas. Controling archipelago of greek islands can be a good place to safely build naval forces , Controling that territory will gives u that type of Champs ... etc etc   .. 

 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 hours ago, JC (naval supremacist) said:

To come back to my idea, i will just add this new element :  imagine Greece map is splitted in 15 territories in a Pelopenese WAR between Sparta league vs Athen League . One can imagine that controling a particular territory will bring a particular benefit : ie  : control a territory with a big neutral city on it will gave u ressources automatic ressources, but also more pop cap for your all war campaing ; controlling a terroritory with a big Harbour on it brings extra source of food from seas. Controling archipelago of greek islands can be a good place to safely build naval forces , Controling that territory will gives u that type of Champs ... etc etc   .. 

Hi guy. I find this in the game:
 

 

Such a thing could be turn base or realtime. What do you think?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Turn based  is the awaited.

[JC (naval supremacist)]

Yaeh , looks great Wow ! Thanks for this pic, it brings more readers

Micro = Territory = RTS = the games played on multi right now

Macro =  Map =  turn-based (after each Micro game the map is updated and "emperors" can make a decision)  = Campaign mode

Actually , turn based is not really the right word as "emperors" (opponents) make decision in both time (move ressources and units in neighbour territories) and their respective decisons are - of course- not revealed to opponent (ie : Sparta thinks that Athen is going to control all the coasts .. but actualy it goes rush to attack Sparta with all forces *). The time unit is the same for both opponents , each time a Micro-game is finished **, the emperor sees the map update and the General who manage the team on the field ( = commands 3 or 4 players during a micro game) can type some information to the emperor in a private lobby of the civ.  So the empreror can hear the generals (super-players) and commanders (classical players) and make decisions and drag-drop some figurines on the Macro-Map to illustrate the situation.  

To avoid players to end games too quickly (just for making their units transit territories)  having officialy a territory (your colored on the map) brings the emperor extra passive ressources after each micro-game BESIDE the net ressources gained at the end of the match -> a General losing a micro-game should resign and retreat before letting the opponent General start making huge amount of extra ressources for his Emperor campaign

 

___

*  Athen has to make Sparta think for each micro game, that Athen lost all games on his way to Sparta .. actually, he just made all his troops secretely exit the territory (yes, retreat mode like in DUNE) on their way to Sparta .. so Sparta may think that Athen forces have been all dead so Sparta starts his way to fight back and will have a bad surprise..  so its a bit like Micro games with hidden champs ready to rush CC , but it may more complexe to do and a long-term strategy .  If a player playing the role of a General (so team-ruler during micro games) see anything suspect (like just a defending city on the territory he might end the game) . 

** Micro-games can be played in same time : the "emperors" have notification that a micro-game is finished and they can switch to the macro-map

[JC (naval supremacist)]

Hi Kanzen ! 

Where did u find that info ?

[Stan`]

He has been here for quite a while. At the beginning the game was planned to be like a Total War or at least that was some dev's plans.

Edited April 25, 2016 by stanislas69

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 hours ago, JC (naval supremacist) said:

Hi Kanzen ! 

Where did u find that info ?

We have a developer zone, so I love investigate so much, so I enter in the page where are top features.

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/GameplayFeatureStatus

You can find a similar topic pinned here.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Here is the first time I meet the idea. In this game of course.