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Alpha 18 Balancing Branch


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Have you considered balancing sword cavalry units?

In my testing with Alpha 17, 20 sword cavalry units (with no micro) decisively defeat 30 of any combination of spearmen, skirmishers, and swordsmen (with ideal micro). They also defeat 20 spear cavalry with significant margin. They also defeat 20 of any combination of pikemen, archers, and slingers. They do not defeat 20 pikemen and 10 slingers, but they still have great map maneuverability. They do not properly engage ranged cavalry because of auto-micro but if that's disabled the result would be similar to infantry skirmishers.

Sword cavalry units are very cheap: 80 food, 35 wood, and 20 metal. They overwhelmingly defeat swordsmen of similar cost. They have the highest DPS (24.6 hack/second) among non-champion cavalry and infantry units after Babylonian Scythed Chariots (31 pierce/second). It seems nothing in the entire infantry and cavalry roster can properly counter sword cavalry spam.

Also a question: my machine doesn't seem capable of building the entire game. Is it possible to test it with only public.zip patched with the updated templates?

I think this branch will give more attention for infantary units, but if possible you can give attention for cav too. I don't know if sword cav need nerf or upgrades. But the spearmen cav need modification, without hard counters this units don't have more utility (You can read some considerations of Panando about the spearmen cav here: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19421&hl=). Your status is a little above of sword cav, but the great diffenrece is your rate attack, is 2.25 secs. I ask if anyone can test this in SVN, but I think is to easy ranged infantary with micro take over a spearmen cav easily.

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I don't see a good reason for rams to attack soldiers at all.

Changes made: Differentiation of skirmishers and archers Civ-specific unit\buildings perks and bonuses Formation Enabling/Disabling Toggle (see ticket #2936) Stronger champions and heroes Nerfing of P

Agree on wow. Nowhere in history are rams effective against infantry. They are not tanks.

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I think this branch will give more attention for infantary units, but if possible you can give attention for cav too. I don't know if sword cav need nerf or upgrades. But the spearmen cav need modification, without hard counters this units don't have more utility (You can read some considerations of Panando about the spearmen cav here: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19421&hl=). Your status is a little above of sword cav, but the great diffenrece is your rate attack, is 2.25 secs. I ask if anyone can test this in SVN, but I think is to easy ranged infantary with micro take over a spearmen cav easily.

true ^^but infantry is first cava balacning is after spear cav are weak sword cav are too strong vs building but for spear cav i beleive they should keep the current rates but do more damage

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SInce 0.A.D is trying to be as realistic and historical as possible while keep the gameplay fun i think units sould be more uniek.

- Units sould not be able to destroy stone buildings "But some units can have torches that can be trown to wooden buildings/defences" But is a slow process.

- Battery rams sould not be able to kill units only buildings, With health , armor , damage upgrades.

- Towers sould have upgrades for different arrow types like: fire , armour piercing types "and when selecting the defence tower you can choice what arrow type you want"

- Gates sould have some defence upgrades like: boiling oil , iron gate. So you can defend your gate house from rams.

- Scorpions sould do no to very little damage to buildings with normal arrows but when selecting fire arrows it those fire damage to wooden buildings.

just a few things with many more of those type of changes and units with special roles and well belanced for all factions with there own style and then i think it will be the best strategy game ever!

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Defense towers are more like distraction towers and the main thing needed to improve on is lag, but other than that awesome game. oh yeah give Mauryans another ship to train.

agree on lag thing, not onto tower thing, some players just rush into the cc not really a great gameplay If u just mass out units to attack cc´s.

Though some civs got ships just to be balanced but in the real life they didnt just fisher boats or transport ships

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agree on lag thing, not onto tower thing, some players just rush into the cc not really a great gameplay If u just mass out units to attack cc´s.

Though some civs got ships just to be balanced but in the real life they didnt just fisher boats or transport ships

Yeah , to destroy/ defeat enemy players you focus in destroy the Main CC ( where is stablished the farmland) nobody survive to that almost mostly of time nobody can recover.
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true ^^but infantry is first cava balacning is after spear cav are weak sword cav are too strong vs building but for spear cav i beleive they should keep the current rates but do more damage

Yeah the other day played with gauls Ope that cav, and cheap, while tryed to get elite horsemen, they die more and do less

It has already been determined that some matches indeed have unbalanced teams (that's what the rating numbers are for).

The cavalry discussion can go on forever (really, each type has a tactical advantage over the other, just like IRL).

In that time there were not horse chairs till late centuries, caballery was more supportive thing and briton didnt have much horses to spawn like that, in fact gauls, celts (britions), germans were more skirmish think, they werent trained to stand and have long fights

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Little problem i found, all footmen of the ptol need either metal or stone to be produced. This might be a big disadvantage in some situation. On the counter, they've always been considered OP couse of the archers , wich cost wood and iron and spawn fast. Dunno if the whole thing can be considered balanced.

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Little problem i found, all footmen of the ptol need either metal or stone to be produced. This might be a big disadvantage in some situation. On the counter, they've always been considered OP couse of the archers , wich cost wood and iron and spawn fast. Dunno if the whole thing can be considered balanced.

Ptol pikeman costs food and wood, right?

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Alekusu we're talking about scythe balance branch, not a17. Scythe made them cost iron too, couse it kinda fits they're new role he intended them to have in a18. They're gonna be little tanks in a few words, very slow and low attack, huge defence.

Download the SBB!!!! And help testing ,your opinion would be very important!

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....we're talking about scythe balance branch, not a17.

This. Unfortunately a constructive discussion in this thread seems impossible, cuz most participants in this thread forget the topic and use this thread as a suggestion thread aso.

Whatever, we have feature freeze for a18 in ~ 30 hours, and the main balancing issues of a17 are still not solved:

- underpowered (health!!!) champion units

- overpowered citizens ( gaul sword cav, persian carriots)

I really hope that at least this gets done before release....

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In terms of health, most champions do have significantly more health than citizen soldiers at the moment.Note that ranks may be temporarily disabled for A18 due to the massive amounts of hardcoding and easily overlooked inconsistencies. Champions may be buffed later when advanced and elite soldiers are reintroduced.

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Wooden Fortress huh? You read my mind Scyth, but costs similar to tower, have same stats, the most great adventage I can see is can. Be built them at 1 phase. I like the idea, but need be more differenciate than normal tower may be descrase the position in between and more weak.

-Outpost weak , 1 garrison slot, cheap ( Wood) only, defense low (crush) advantages : high LOS, not need territory or limit

-Wooden fortress medium, 4 garrison slot, cheap ( wood and stone) defense medium, advantages: high LOS, can be upgrade individually from a outpost

-Defense tower strong, 5 garrison slot, medium cost, defense medium to high, advantages ( none)

-Wall turret very strong, 3 garrison slot, almost expensive, very high advantages ( none)

I'm not sure but I feel the slinger very strong.

We need more level of Armory tech

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