Peregriino Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Have you considered balancing sword cavalry units?In my testing with Alpha 17, 20 sword cavalry units (with no micro) decisively defeat 30 of any combination of spearmen, skirmishers, and swordsmen (with ideal micro). They also defeat 20 spear cavalry with significant margin. They also defeat 20 of any combination of pikemen, archers, and slingers. They do not defeat 20 pikemen and 10 slingers, but they still have great map maneuverability. They do not properly engage ranged cavalry because of auto-micro but if that's disabled the result would be similar to infantry skirmishers.Sword cavalry units are very cheap: 80 food, 35 wood, and 20 metal. They overwhelmingly defeat swordsmen of similar cost. They have the highest DPS (24.6 hack/second) among non-champion cavalry and infantry units after Babylonian Scythed Chariots (31 pierce/second). It seems nothing in the entire infantry and cavalry roster can properly counter sword cavalry spam.Also a question: my machine doesn't seem capable of building the entire game. Is it possible to test it with only public.zip patched with the updated templates?I think this branch will give more attention for infantary units, but if possible you can give attention for cav too. I don't know if sword cav need nerf or upgrades. But the spearmen cav need modification, without hard counters this units don't have more utility (You can read some considerations of Panando about the spearmen cav here: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19421&hl=). Your status is a little above of sword cav, but the great diffenrece is your rate attack, is 2.25 secs. I ask if anyone can test this in SVN, but I think is to easy ranged infantary with micro take over a spearmen cav easily. Edited January 15, 2015 by Peregriino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordIgorIIIofKiev Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I think this branch will give more attention for infantary units, but if possible you can give attention for cav too. I don't know if sword cav need nerf or upgrades. But the spearmen cav need modification, without hard counters this units don't have more utility (You can read some considerations of Panando about the spearmen cav here: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19421&hl=). Your status is a little above of sword cav, but the great diffenrece is your rate attack, is 2.25 secs. I ask if anyone can test this in SVN, but I think is to easy ranged infantary with micro take over a spearmen cav easily.true ^^but infantry is first cava balacning is after spear cav are weak sword cav are too strong vs building but for spear cav i beleive they should keep the current rates but do more damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thamlett Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 It has already been determined that some matches indeed have unbalanced teams (that's what the rating numbers are for).The cavalry discussion can go on forever (really, each type has a tactical advantage over the other, just like IRL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miracleduck2000 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Defense towers are more like distraction towers and the main thing needed to improve on is lag, but other than that awesome game. oh yeah give Mauryans another ship to train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoekeloosNL Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 SInce 0.A.D is trying to be as realistic and historical as possible while keep the gameplay fun i think units sould be more uniek.- Units sould not be able to destroy stone buildings "But some units can have torches that can be trown to wooden buildings/defences" But is a slow process.- Battery rams sould not be able to kill units only buildings, With health , armor , damage upgrades. - Towers sould have upgrades for different arrow types like: fire , armour piercing types "and when selecting the defence tower you can choice what arrow type you want" - Gates sould have some defence upgrades like: boiling oil , iron gate. So you can defend your gate house from rams.- Scorpions sould do no to very little damage to buildings with normal arrows but when selecting fire arrows it those fire damage to wooden buildings.just a few things with many more of those type of changes and units with special roles and well belanced for all factions with there own style and then i think it will be the best strategy game ever! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurgenjuggernaut Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Defense towers are more like distraction towers and the main thing needed to improve on is lag, but other than that awesome game. oh yeah give Mauryans another ship to train.agree on lag thing, not onto tower thing, some players just rush into the cc not really a great gameplay If u just mass out units to attack cc´s.Though some civs got ships just to be balanced but in the real life they didnt just fisher boats or transport ships Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 agree on lag thing, not onto tower thing, some players just rush into the cc not really a great gameplay If u just mass out units to attack cc´s.Though some civs got ships just to be balanced but in the real life they didnt just fisher boats or transport shipsYeah , to destroy/ defeat enemy players you focus in destroy the Main CC ( where is stablished the farmland) nobody survive to that almost mostly of time nobody can recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurgenjuggernaut Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 true ^^but infantry is first cava balacning is after spear cav are weak sword cav are too strong vs building but for spear cav i beleive they should keep the current rates but do more damageYeah the other day played with gauls Ope that cav, and cheap, while tryed to get elite horsemen, they die more and do lessIt has already been determined that some matches indeed have unbalanced teams (that's what the rating numbers are for).The cavalry discussion can go on forever (really, each type has a tactical advantage over the other, just like IRL).In that time there were not horse chairs till late centuries, caballery was more supportive thing and briton didnt have much horses to spawn like that, in fact gauls, celts (britions), germans were more skirmish think, they werent trained to stand and have long fights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNcog Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 are sword cav too strong generally speaking these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekusu Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yes against building. And because spearman cavalry are useless, it creates inbalance between civ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Macedon don't have cavalry sword or infantry sword I feeling some underpowered in early stages, specially against buildings and army composed by archers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezil Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Little problem i found, all footmen of the ptol need either metal or stone to be produced. This might be a big disadvantage in some situation. On the counter, they've always been considered OP couse of the archers , wich cost wood and iron and spawn fast. Dunno if the whole thing can be considered balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Little problem i found, all footmen of the ptol need either metal or stone to be produced. This might be a big disadvantage in some situation. On the counter, they've always been considered OP couse of the archers , wich cost wood and iron and spawn fast. Dunno if the whole thing can be considered balanced.Ptol pikeman costs food and wood, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezil Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 And iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 And iron.ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekusu Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 And iron.Sure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezil Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Sure ? Yep, like they take 20 iron to be trained. And BTW, you should join the multiplayer sometime, I dont see you anymore there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekusu Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 The infantry spearman you do from CC or barrack cost 50 wood 50 food. And BTW, you should join the multiplayer sometime, I dont see you anymore there!I know ! i was busy at works and with my videos.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezil Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Alekusu we're talking about scythe balance branch, not a17. Scythe made them cost iron too, couse it kinda fits they're new role he intended them to have in a18. They're gonna be little tanks in a few words, very slow and low attack, huge defence.Download the SBB!!!! And help testing ,your opinion would be very important! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzippy Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 ....we're talking about scythe balance branch, not a17.This. Unfortunately a constructive discussion in this thread seems impossible, cuz most participants in this thread forget the topic and use this thread as a suggestion thread aso.Whatever, we have feature freeze for a18 in ~ 30 hours, and the main balancing issues of a17 are still not solved:- underpowered (health!!!) champion units- overpowered citizens ( gaul sword cav, persian carriots)I really hope that at least this gets done before release.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niektb Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 6 days ago the SBB did get a champion rebalance though: https://github.com/scythetwirler/0ad/commit/3488c1cdbe2600ddc5029ac4b634755d0046c9b1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzippy Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 ..yeah, but not health. Imho champions should be at least as "healthy" as fully upgraded citizen soldiers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezil Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Imho champions should annhilate citizen-soldiers. I'm gonna try them out for feedback tho, didnt check them in sbb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scythetwirler Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 In terms of health, most champions do have significantly more health than citizen soldiers at the moment.Note that ranks may be temporarily disabled for A18 due to the massive amounts of hardcoding and easily overlooked inconsistencies. Champions may be buffed later when advanced and elite soldiers are reintroduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Wooden Fortress huh? You read my mind Scyth, but costs similar to tower, have same stats, the most great adventage I can see is can. Be built them at 1 phase. I like the idea, but need be more differenciate than normal tower may be descrase the position in between and more weak.-Outpost weak , 1 garrison slot, cheap ( Wood) only, defense low (crush) advantages : high LOS, not need territory or limit-Wooden fortress medium, 4 garrison slot, cheap ( wood and stone) defense medium, advantages: high LOS, can be upgrade individually from a outpost-Defense tower strong, 5 garrison slot, medium cost, defense medium to high, advantages ( none)-Wall turret very strong, 3 garrison slot, almost expensive, very high advantages ( none)I'm not sure but I feel the slinger very strong.We need more level of Armory tech 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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