Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Some cool stuff there Meph. I'll comment on some things. My comments will be in BOLD.

Engine suggestions:

• Passible object areas (Usual objects are in their own square or rectangle and nothing can walk inside it. What if units could walk in some areas?) We have had some thoughts along these lines as well... namely units walking through town centers and such. We might not implement this in Part 1, but it is something on our radar.
  
• Passible data. (In a campaign, data such as quest vars can be sent from one scenario to another. For example, in a campaign, if you kill a character called "the general", a quest var is set to '1', but if you kill a character called "the dictator", the quest var is set to "2". In the next scenario of the campaign, it will be effected by the quest var. This is only an example of how this effect can be achieved.) This is most excellent. We too have had this idea. We haven't really started on the code for implementing campaigns yet, but this is something we've wanted, as gamers, forever.
  

Editor suggestions:

• Password protection for scenarios. (One must type in a password to edit a map.) Then what happens if you forget the password? Should there be a whole identity check system so you can reset the password and all that? Also, how are we to prevent folks from just opening up the map script and finding the password? I think this would be very easy to crack. Hmm, unless the password feature was hosted locally and not with the map itself. A programmer would need to seriously think about how to implement this.
  
• Anti-rehosting for multiplayer playtesting. (When hosting a map to playtest, all players but the host have the map file deleted to prevent them from hosting it.) This could easily be done. Just include a gametype for the host... maybe a simple checkbox "delete remote map files" or something or a "testing mode" option for the host that does this.
  
• Equally sized. (You can change the size of an object by pressing "K", but you can't get objects the same size as eachother. There needs to be a way of doing this.) The plan so far is to be able to change scale of objects by inputting the scale manually. Like + or - X% in a form field. A good idea would be to allow the designer to select multiple objects and scale them all at once via this method.
  
• Scenario file XML editor. (The file can also be edited manually via its XML code aswell as using the editor tools.) I think any text editor would do the job. I like Notepad++ and use it for editing all the XML files I touch in the game, but there are other solutions out on the web as well.
  
• Visible LOS and Range. (A ring appears around a unit in the editor. It would show a units range. Another would how its LOS.) This could be toggled on and off in the editor with a simple button. Good thinking!
  
• Copy and paste triggers. (The ability to copy and paste triggers from one map to another.) Well, duh! Of course! Our triggers will be XML/script based, so they will be easy to move around as individual files.
  
• Copy and paste overlapping objects. (When this is attempted, one of the objects gets deleted to make room. This should not happen.) We don't have copy/paste functionality yet in our editor, so we'll see how this works out.
  
• Converting units. (If someone places a unit with the wrong player, he can change it without deleting it and placing it again.) Yeah, we can do this already. Just select the object and change the player number. Already implemented.
  
• Compatibility with mods. (For example, if someone makes a new unit, he or she can still use multiplayer etc.) This has been planned from the very beginning of this project. This is something we've always wanted to do. The way we want to implement mods is very very cool. Time will tell if we can make it as cool as we hope. lol
  
• Download custom music with scenarios. (When a map is being downloaded, the music for it is too.) Yeah, this goes with the one above. However, there should be a way to notify client players of the size and scope of the download before they even join the host's game. In this day and age a lot of people still have to watch their bandwidth usage.
  
• Make sure we are aware of what triggers do not work online. (Some triggers do not work online and cause Sync errors. We don't know which ones do that.) As we will support our editor after release, this should not be a problem. Ensemble Studios never ever supported their editors post-release. We will. We will fix all errors like this soon after they are discovered. Plus, with the moddability that is built into the game it will be very very easy for the community to fix these things too. We won't use the community as a crutch, but I think the ingenuity of the community will be such that "fan patches" will be ubiquitous.
  
• Object flipping tool. (A tool that lets one flip any object. This is not a rotate tool.) We'll have an object movement tool in the editor that will do just about anything you can think off, I'd imagine.
  
• Custom special attacks. (A tool that lets one make his or her own special attacks for units.) I don't think we'll have a special tool for this. However, it'll be very easy to edit units and to create your own that will have whatever kind of attack you want.
  
• Support for "if{} else{}" in triggers. Probably.
  
• Copy and pasted flipped units. (When copying and pasting a unit, it will also copy its size that it might have been enlarged at and digrees that it's flipped.) Good one. Copying a unit or object should also copy its current state.
  
• Enlarging units (By pressing a button or pressing a key on the keyboard, all units selected can be enlarged or shrank.) I think it would be much more precise to use % numbers in a form field. However, perhaps hotkeys can be used and they scale in 1% increments - the scale showing up dynamically in the form field.
  
• Multiple players (In multiplayer scenarios, you can only have a pre-set amount of players that can never be changed. However, what if you could have a scenario where you can choose two number of players. For example, a map might be able to support either having 4 players or 6 players.) Please explain further. I am confused. I think you could already do that with triggers. If 4 players, then kill players 5 and 6. Something like that.
  
• Controling resigned players. (If a player resigns in a multiplayer map, an allied player could be able to control his or her units. This could be switched on or off with a trigger effect.) This could also be a Hosting option. Not sure if we'll implement that though. We have a laundry list of cool features we want already. We've also thought about "tributing" units between allies and other such cool things. But I think initially, as far as gameplay goes, we'll focus on releasing a fundamentally stable, balanced, and traditional RTS game with a few enhancements and innovations along the way. A lot of "backburner" items can come later in subsequent patches.
  
• AI is set by a scenario. (In multiplayer, A map maker has the option of having the AI pre-set father than leting the host of the map chose what and how many AIs there will be.) Reasonable.
  
• Setting the Z axis of some objects. (Objects can be placed anywhere on the map but up. Not all objects should be allowed to levitate however. For example, units (i.e. infantry, villagers, etc). Units should also be able to walk under the raised objects if they're high enough.) Cool ideas. Maybe 0 A.D. 2.5
  
• Stretch objects. (A feature where if an object is clicked on, there is a tool that can stretch it.) Not gonna happen.
  
• Complete support for modifications. Yeah, planned from the beginning. It maybe won't be the UBER zOMG moddable game everyone has in their heads, but it will be amazing what you will be able to do when compared to a AAA game like AOK or AOM.
  
• Search box. (When a drop down list with a lot of items such as fire event appears, there should be a search box to narrow down the results to find the item being searched for easier.)
  
• Random Map Editor. (A tool that allows someone with little or no experience of code to create a random map.) Everyone's always wanted this. Perhaps for 0 A.D. Part 2 we'll integrate something like that into our Atlas Editor.
  

Trigger suggestions:

• Modify Selected Unit. (An effect similar to modify protounit, but will edit the stats of a selected unit rather than the protunit. For example: I could selected an archer belonging to player 4 and increased it's hitpoints. In Age of Mythology and Age of Empires III, you can't do that. You have to select the archer from a list and all of the units for that player will be edited (i.e. modify protounit). Modify protounit should still be kept.) Yeah, we have plans to allow editing of individual units, as well as the entire protounit.
  
• Quest Var versions of effects. (Versions of triggers that use quest vars. For example, a "fake counter" effect might say "You have killed X units", with X being the number of units killed.)
  
• Player Change Major. God (An effect that changes a players God.) Not applicable to 0 A.D., per se. Prolly an effect that changes a player's civilization or faction.
  
• Player Change Color. (An effect that changes a player's colour.) Sure.
  
• Teleport Unit supports online (The "teleport unit" effect doesn't work online. Please change it so that it does.)
  
• Player Kill One God Power. (e.g. Kill the rain god power but don't destroy any others.)
  

[Brightgalrs]

Lovely stuff!

[plumo]

Indeed. Some amazing ideas.

I'd love to see the variables continuing in the next mission

[Ykkrosh]

A couple of points:

Password protection for scenarios. (One must type in a password to edit a map.) Then what happens if you forget the password? Should there be a whole identity check system so you can reset the password and all that? Also, how are we to prevent folks from just opening up the map script and finding the password? I think this would be very easy to crack. Hmm, unless the password feature was hosted locally and not with the map itself. A programmer would need to seriously think about how to implement this.

The fundamental problem is that you want people to play your map without a password. That means the map has to contain enough information so it's decodable by the game. Exactly the same game engine is used for playing games and for the editor (there's just different UI), so if you can decode the map to play it then you can also decode the map to edit it. Given the plan to release the tools as open source, anyone could easily remove any artificial restrictions that stop the editor opening maps.

Still, it's possible to make maps hard to edit. I wrote an experimental tool for AoM that would remove all the trigger names, remove all the condition/effect identifiers (and just keep the script code which gets executed when the trigger runs), mess up an internal counter so you couldn't create new triggers, and I think that was about it. The first two changes are irreversible, though they just makes editing awkward rather than impossible. I suppose it's theoretically possible that similar tricks could be applied to 0 A.D. maps, to erase information like names that don't affect gameplay, and include some encrypted data so the password-holder can recover the original data, but I don't know that it would be worthwhile or desirable.

Perhaps a more useful feature would be to let you mark a map as 'final', and then if anyone edits your map it'll be displayed as "Name by Author (based on Original Name by Original Author)" so the credits are preserved by default, which might help address the credit-stealing problem that makes some people want to password-protect their maps. (What other reasons do people want password protection for?)

Scenario file XML editor. (The file can also be edited manually via its XML code aswell as using the editor tools.) I think any text editor would do the job. I like Notepad++ and use it for editing all the XML files I touch in the game, but there are other solutions out on the web as well.

In case it's not clear from Michael's response: Most of the map data is indeed stored in an XML file, so it's easy to edit that way. (The only exception is the terrain data, which is stored in a simple binary file because it would be insane to use XML for that.)

[PhoenixDog]

Suggestion: Add Dragons.

[plumo]

You are losing my respect phoenix

[Meph]

[*] Multiple players (In multiplayer scenarios, you can only have a pre-set amount of players that can never be changed. However, what if you could have a scenario where you can choose two number of players. For example, a map might be able to support either having 4 players or 6 players.) Please explain further. I am confused. I think you could already do that with triggers. If 4 players, then kill players 5 and 6. Something like that.

Sorry. When I was compiling the list, I was copying and pasting other people's words, so some aren't explained clearly.

What I mean by multiple players is that... well... lets say I'm making a capture the flag scenario for multiplayer. It would be one team verses another team, wouldn't it? Now, usually, I would have a pre-set amount of players able to join (e.g. 4 players in a 2v2 match). However, what if I was able to choose whether I wanted by play with 6 players in a 3v3 match or 2 players in a 1v1 match? Do you see what I mean?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Then I would do that with a random map script, personally. Get to learning!

[Meph]

Indeed.

[PhoenixDog]

You are losing my respect phoenix

Oh come now...Dragons can make anything better. Imagine...An army of Celts vs. an Army of Hellenes battling in a grove. Hundreds of men on both sides, clashing steel and steed. Then suddenly, DRAGONS! DRAGONS EVERYWHERE! Fire engulfs the armies...searing heat and brimstone falls from the mouths of the winged beasts.

I say epic. EPIC I SAY!

[feneur]

Oh come now...Dragons can make anything better. Imagine...An army of Celts vs. an Army of Hellenes battling in a grove. Hundreds of men on both sides, clashing steel and steed. Then suddenly, DRAGONS! DRAGONS EVERYWHERE! Fire engulfs the armies...searing heat and brimstone falls from the mouths of the winged beasts.

I say epic. EPIC I SAY!

I actually think we have a dragon around from a halloween image some years ago, so it would be possible to do I guess =) I, and a lot of others I'm sure, won't allow it to be part of ordinary game-play though

Speaking of dragons I suggest that you try the campaign Dragon Cult for Rise and Fall (can be found at: http://raf.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=54 ). There are some glitches in one of the scenarios and so, but the last scenario is truly worth that, it is epic I'd say.

[Meph]

A dragon would be good if it was invoked by a cheat code. Otherwise, it would get in the way of true gameplay.

[plumo]

A dragon isn't original.

Remember the baby on a bike in Age of empires

[t i m a e u s]

BTW, if u guys make a map like Alfheim make sure the textures, colors, lightning are similar. Well...I don't know how to explain but that environment looks just great

[feneur]

Alfheim? I'm not sure what/where that is, nor how you'd get the impression that we'd create such a map, so please explain it so you may end my ignorance

[t i m a e u s]

Those who don't/didn't play AoM/TT can't understand

[feneur]

Ah, ok Then I understand that much at least

[Mythos_Ruler]

It's similar to our "Neareastern Badlands" map, Erik.

A mockup I made several years ago in the AOM editor:

[Meph]

This is Alfheim:

http://aom.heavengames.com/gameinfo/maps

[NOXAS1]

I have an idea for a cheat. what about the Marines from Halo or Master Chief or just space marines-halo looking- Just an idea you know like photon man

[Apomonomenos]

Alfheim? I'm not sure what/where that is, nor how you'd get the impression that we'd create such a map, so please explain it so you may end my ignorance

Alfheim

Norse Mythology

Translation: Light Elf's Home (There were a number of Norse worlds before Ragnorok, Alfheim was one of them. It's counterpart was Nifalfheim, or Dark Elf Home)

Direct Translation: Elf (Alf) Home (Heim)

I'm a mythology freak, I just had to say that.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Apomonomenos

[Mythos_Ruler]

I have an idea for a cheat. what about the Marines from Halo or Master Chief or just space marines-halo looking- Just an idea you know like photon man

No element in the game can be taken from another copyrighted work. Sorry. So, no Master Chief cheat.

[NOXAS1]

Thats why I said space marines because they are kind of like photon man from aoe

[Meph]

Why don't we have something ridiculous as a cheat? AoM had laser bear, who would fly around at top speed with minion-monkeys.

Perhaps we could have some sort of Rubber Duck of Doom? Seriously, that would be really great!

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think whatever cheat units we have will end up being whatever our artists feel like making.