Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[Paal_101]

One can definately expect many unofficial mods, plus perhaps some official packs as well Long way off, but who knows?

[Acumen]

Going off what we have at the moment, I can't guarantee that modpacks will be *easy* to make (that'd require much tool development, and therefore it's dependent on the degree of tool programmer resource at our disposal -- and they'll be plenty overworked by putting the dev tools and Scenario Editor together ) ...

But in terms of doing it by hand at current, the engine is very flexible. You can build up secondary trees of assets which override the official game (so mods can be enabled/disabled without overwriting the release version), we're using open file formats as much as possible so that there's less need for converter tools, and we design our systems in an extensible, generic fashion. We're also aiming to script as much gameplay-specific logic and UI as we can, so that it can be adapted during development and beyond.

[TrashA]

What i would like to see is rain. and im not talking about the kinda rain you see in current games. Drip drip drip is lame and boring. I want to see HUGE downpours.

That would force players to plan there campaigns around the sesons and the weather. maybe force the units to seek shelter and halt the resource income for a 2-4 min period.

that would give time for the player to chat with his allies, get much needed info, and plot where to attack next.

its also very sweet eyecandy, and would look nice

Edited July 17, 2005 by TrashA

[Aeros]

Rain is a seasonal effect and is among one of the things planned. As for the scenario you mentioned - you could very possibly design a situation like that in the map editor

[Argalius]

Rain is a seasonal effect

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Not in Holland, we have rain all year...

[Vingauld]

Well, it`s not raining here at the moment, or at least not in this part of the country, it`s been a litlle while since the last time it rained here, a few weeks

[Aeros]

Seasonal effect in terms of the seasons in the game haha

[Titus Ultor]

Lol. Bobby and I haven't seen rain in months! Since those big storms, I think. What with the three inches at once. I guess "big" is relative...

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

Well, that's right and you aren't likely to because you live in a Mediterraean Biome climatalogically. The Med climate gets most of its rains during Winter season then followed by long hot dry summers that can be as long as 8 or 9 months ocnsecutively, while in Holland Argalius lives in a Temperate Biome climate, so it may rain at any time of the year, any Season. In the game, 0ad, rainfall (and snowfall if existing)) will be tied to the map biomes (presuming that we get all the mechanics worked out for that). However, one won't HAVE to play with Seasons turned on as it is a game setup function whether will be used during the session at the option of the game host.

[Argalius]

Don't you think you'll end up with tons of things a host can specify? I mean, it doesn't have any effect on the game in terms of gameplay, so why would anyone bother to turn it on or off?

[Fire Giant]

For example in order to improve game performance - all those "nice to have" effects are putting additional pressure on the graphics card and the rest of your system, so it might cause lag in multiplayer mode if someone is at the lower end of the system requirements

Mhm, EDIT: I think you got Ken wrong here - the seasons DO have influence on the gameplay, but you can decided whether you want to play with or without seasons (it might seem inappropriate on some maps, for example).

[Caesar]

How about puting in options to turn on/off the effects, then you can satisfy those who like good effects and those with the minimum requirements?

[Argalius]

Mhm, EDIT: I think you got Ken wrong here - the seasons DO have influence on the gameplay, but you can decided whether you want to play with or without seasons (it might seem inappropriate on some maps, for example).

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How does rain influence the game? Better farming?

And all those nice to have features, shouldn't they be specified by the gamer himself so he can see what his videocard can take and not the host who doesn't know anything of his playmates?

[Fire Giant]

How does rain influence the game? Better farming?

You have to differentiate between seasons and weather. Of course, those are linked, but it's not the weather that has an influence on the gameplay, but the four seasons and the results of likely-to-be weather in the mediterranean biome during those seasons. Each season will likely have characteristic weather effects assigned to it (like snow in winter) and all further weather effects (like cosmetic rain in summer etc.) would not have direct influence on the gameplay (you could possibly "fake" that with a trigger in a custom scenario, though).

And all those nice to have features, shouldn't they be specified by the gamer himself so he can see what his videocard can take and not the host who doesn't know anything of his playmates?

Yes, this is correct and I think this is the way it's planned: Purely cosmetic features go to the game options dialog, but gameplay-affecting features have to go to the game setup, since it might pose kind of a problem if one player doesn't have seasons activated and all others have

[pyrolink]

This is a big forum and I haven't read all of the posts and I know it was mentioned at least briefly about fighting on walls. Rather, though, I think what would be even more valuable and would eventually lead to fighting on walls is the construction of ladders. I mean let's be honest. In war, are you going to lead your close range units unto their death sitting there defenseless against the opponents long range weapons? I realize this isn't real war, but I think it would add a whole new dimension and seriously add realism. That way, someone can't steal the game with a lot of stone and some walls. (Prays people will like the idea and it can be implemented accordingly).

Well, I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks; naturally, majority rules. :-)

[Argalius]

Each season will likely have characteristic weather effects assigned to it (like snow in winter) and all further weather effects (like cosmetic rain in summer etc.) would not have direct influence on the gameplay (you could possibly "fake" that with a trigger in a custom scenario, though).

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I'm lost. You did say that it affected the gameplay:

the seasons DO have influence on the gameplay

And now you say they don't have a direct influence... Then what is the influence they have?

[SGE]

I believe that he meant that lets say winter does have an effect on gameplay, but the fact that its raining/snowing doesn't.

[pinkisacolor]

will rate of attck go down as a unit gets hurt?

[Argalius]

Will 0AD support normal maps?

[Titus Ultor]

Rate of attack will most likely not go down as the units take damage.

One may think that this is a bit unrealistic, but then again, so is a soldier taking a dozen arrows hits.

[Ykkrosh]

Will 0AD support normal maps?

No - only irregular and inexplicable maps will be allowed, preferably set in at least four dimensions with non-Euclidean geometry. (The game might be more lenient about topology if the map's storyline involves sponges.)

For graphical normal maps, also mostly no - they might be used for some effects (like water), but not for general terrain or units.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Yeah, I don't particularly see the need for normal mapping in an RTS of this kind. Just my humble opinion. Plus, do we really want to contend with the probable (?) performance hit?

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

I'd like to return to Argalius' question about whether weather would have an effect upon gameplay, or not... as I think that it is a bit of a confusing issue.

As originally spec'd, yes, some, IF Seasons are 'turned on' in game setup.

If Seasons are not turned on during game set-up, then there is not weather effect because there will be NO weather during the course of a game session.

How seasons would 'present' themselves is tied to climatological biome (as a theme)... one might say loosely but not really inaccurately, climatology zones... such as Alpine, Temperate, Mediterranean, Steppe, Semi-Arid, Desert, Savannah, Tropic and Arctic... yeah, that's all 9 of them spec'd for the game and its maps.

If on a Desert map (of which there are spec'd to be several 'types' more-or-less representing places in the real world, like 'Cradle of Civilisation' or 'Nile Delta' frex) one could expect to see very little in the way of weather, perhaps occasional short and sort of 'violent' squalls or 'sandstorms'. On an Arctic map one could expect a lot of weather, heavy weather blowing snow, especially during Winter, probably during Autumn and during Spring, too... with relatively mild Summers... the idea being to simulate, sort of, the weather patterns that typically occur throughout a year in time. As mentioned briefly before (and presuming that the four seasons amount to 4 equal time periods on the game clock making up that 'year' in time) on a Temperate map it could rain at any time of the year and likely snow just about anywhere during winter. Whether rains or snows may oin some cases depend on elevation or distance from the sea, as it certainly would on a Mediterranean map. So, depending upon the map (its climatoloical characteristics we call biomic), seasons may present themselves in various ways.... Summer thunderstorms in some places being strong and violent, Winter rains in others being long-lasting and drizzly-dreary, whatever is 'characteristic' of the region.

Now to the crux of the matter on how 'might' affect gameplay... in a couple ways.

For the human player, HP, I guarantee you that if it is snowing or raining it is going to BE more difficult for YOU to SEE your troop dispositions or what ever else going on on the map (though indicators may appear on the mini-map) therefore weather is gong to have an adverse affect on your ability as an HP to command and control your civ when the weather is adverse... that 'fits', doesn't it?

By the same token the computer player, CP, will 'feel' the affects of adverse weather, too. Frex, if the ground is wet and muddy or deeply snow covered troop movement rate will be slowed down by some factor commensurate with the degree of hindrance and LOS may be reduced, ergo, poor visibility and lousy target acquisition, eh? Also, 'fitting' of an environment that seeks to cast an aura of realism as immersive qualities inherent in the game, or not if not so desired by the HP setting it up.

Note also the HP's units will not move as fast on soggy or snowbound ground either.

So, this is how we've looked at the issue of how virtual weather might affect gameplay. These are things still being worked on and still being worked out, so of course not yet a 'done deal' as far as programming is concerned, nor for that matter even if we do get them to 'work' it remains to be seen if how work will be realistic enough to continue to bother with or just a bother in the main and not.

If implemented, whether or not anyone joins the host's game the way he/she sets it up is entirely up to them, and of course, 'comers' can make their own judgments about that. Tes, there will be a lot of variability, options, in how that may be done regarding game set-ups to include the kinds of games to be played... and noone shall know which fall out as being the most popular ways to set-up until after people have played the game for a while and those begin to 'shake out' of the mix. Anything before that is pure speculation.

We've stated what we want to have in the design document, now we are having to see if we can make that 'come true'.

Any programmers out there that want to join a great team that has made a lot of progress and still has work to be done that one could hone their skills on... that isn't going to be a flake and bug out when finds that great coding and documentation is a lot of WORK to get this thing well made? If so, please apply.. see the 0ad webpage for where and how.

[Argalius]

No - only irregular and inexplicable maps will be allowed, preferably set in at least four dimensions with non-Euclidean geometry. (The game might be more lenient about topology if the map's storyline involves sponges.)

For graphical normal maps, also mostly no - they might be used for some effects (like water), but not for general terrain or units.

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What are irregular and inexplicable maps? (I mean diffuse, glow, bump?)

But if you're going to use it for water, then why not for terrain also, because I think it looks so much better.

Yeah, I don't particularly see the need for normal mapping in an RTS of this kind. Just my humble opinion. Plus, do we really want to contend with the probable (?) performance hit?

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Well I don't know what you will do with cinematics, but I think it would be great to have normal maps on cinematic models. But then again, how much time do you want to spend on it...

@TheRealDeal: Thanks for your huge explination.

[Vaevictis_Music]

What are irregular and inexplicable maps? (I mean diffuse, glow, bump?)

I'm afraid a couple of the team members are in a funny mood and have decided to be sarcastic with you. We try to teach them not to do that. It's an ugly teaching process, involving batons and electric shocks. You won't believe the things that take place in the Staff Lounge sometimes...