===[TASK]=== WONDER: Britons: Stonehenge and White Horse

[oshron]

personally, i think Stonehenge is still the best choice. if not it, then we can say that it's another set of standing stones which were erected by the Brythonic Celts from 500-1bc. besides, there'd be no realistic justification for why you wouldn't be able to walk on top of an Uffington White Horse because, for all intents and purposes, it would be flat

[Lion.Kanzen]

but dont delete or ban XD. is so nostalgic.

[Ludo38]

Hi,

Just wanted to say that I am now working on finishing my model of Stonehenge. Enrique, thank you very much for the advices, that are really helpful in the process.

I think I post you an update before tomorrow.

[Ludo38]

Alright, I've finally been able to tame the UV mapping !

I've build a large texture image with many actual Stonehenge surface photos so that I get a wide surface on which I can dispatch the several blocks without losing too much of the rock's real texture scale.

But still, the texture is a bit blurry. I'll maybe try another way to have it even sharper.

For the use in Blender, I've resized down the texture to 1024x1024.

The model is still not scaled to 0AD's, because the array modifier didn't allowed me to rescale the model properly. I'll do that next, now the array is applied for good.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Good work Ludo, now some props to enchantment. Put is very nice and now we have other 3D artist to do new great things.

[Ludo38]

Thanks Lion!

[Lion.Kanzen]

No, thanks to you to contribute , and thanks to Enrique to upload guides to learning 3D.

[Ludo38]

Hi all,

I've spend the day improving a lot my Stonehenge model, by making a more realistically scaled texture (still 1024px wide) and by making the profile of each stone random as it should be for a megalithic structure.

It was a lot of work to get this all looking real, but I'm, well, very happy with the way it looks now. And as always, I've had some fun with warm light atmospheres.

For the next post, I rescale the model to the size of the wonders. For what comes after that, I'm going to need some help, how to test it into the game and how to deal with the texture skin file, shadow map, etc.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Looks great. Let's get this in ASAP. Can it be done by tomorrow?

BTW -- I like the terrain texture. Can we use it?

[Ludo38]

Yes, the ground texture can be used for 0 A.D.

I have to leave in 20min and will be back tomorrow mid-morning (french time I mean), and I will probably have the time to do all the things to have it in.

As it's my first 3D work for 0AD, I don't know much how you proceed to have it working fine in-game. I'll need some brief.

If I end up meeting too many issues, I will post the model and texture and will leave the last details to an expert, to be sure it's done tomorrow.

[WhiteTreePaladin]

The white horse could still be built (probably a limit of 1-3) and offer some bonus if we wanted. It doesn't have to be a wonder.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Could do Stonehenge for Britons and White Horse for Gauls. Or vice versa. We don't really have anything for the Gauls otherwise. :/

[Loki1950]

How about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnac for the Gauls.Just another set of menhirs on the Brittany coast.

Enjoy the Choice

[Lion.Kanzen]

://orderwhitemoon.org/goddess/Epona/index.html

I found this article about During the great Gaulish revolt against the Romans the Gauls sent the men ahead instead of the horses rather than risk slaughter of them. The men were killed and the Romans were so awed with Goddess Epona and her swift horse they adopted her for their own to protect the horses and the Calvary. Word spread quickly of Goddess Epona and soon her worship was so great the Romans gave Epona her own temple and her own feast day, "Festival of Epona" which was held on December the 18th. Sacrifices of animals(pigs), incense and libations were consumed at these feasts. Wine was served to Goddess Epona in a small silver bowl inscribed to her. Every barn and stable had painted images of Goddess Epona inside and outside, Shrines were erected in temples but in stables also to protect the horses and mules. Holes were cut into walls in the stables where small carvings were placed along with wreaths of roses. Interesting fact during the Romans' sacrificial worships their heads were covered while the Greeks left their heads uncovered. The worship of Goddess Epona spread across Europe from Rome to France,Germany, Greece, England

Edited September 1, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[wraitii]

Menhirs and Dolmens are anachronistic for the gauls as far as I know, it was an earlier people. It might still fit if they adopted the buildings in their own customs, but that is far from certain.

I'm really not sure what to give the gauls though. They were master blacksmith/silversmith, but that's not really a building, and I don't know of anything particularly massive.

[Lion.Kanzen]

A big temple or Statue like a God or a kind of Natural sanctuary. With do,en, trees and a statue.

[Ludo38]

I like the idea of a natural sanctuary for the Celts, at least for one the Celts tribes (Gauls ?). The trees were divine symbols to them, and a giant oak would have been a kind of Wonder to them. Of course, you don't build an oak, and anyway, an oak takes ages to reach a massive size.

But why not trying to design a unique kind of Wonder : instead of building a structure, the builders could shape a ditch around a mound, and at its top, they would sow seeds of (or plant young) oaks and we would have one or several oaks (an oak circle ?) growing (accelerated, of course) and becoming pretty massive (as a big building) and the Wonder's finishes would be a myriad of relic-kind of stuffs and colorful ribbons hanging in the branches, that the builders would put on the trees, like what we can see sometimes on sacred trees throughout the world (we see that in the Pagan culture).

It could be completed also with a few statues or small standing stones.

I acknowledge the game's economic and constructive logic doesn't allow the planting of trees with the ressources aimed for a Wonder (stone, wood, gold, etc), but such "natural" wonder would be the closest representation we could get to what the Celts really worshipped, and it will surely give a unique sense of wonder in a Celt settlement. Also, if we consider that the biggest structures in the game are sometimes the kind that actually took years to build (temples, hanging gardens, etc), then the growing time of a tree seems almost acceptable. Even more if we imagine a little bit of Celt magic that could have make trees grow faster...

The destruction of such wonder would be as possible as for the other wonders : trees burning and falling + collapse of the mound, back to original ground shape.

I admit this idea is pretty difficult to put into the game, but well, I share it anyway.

Here's an interesting page on a similar kind of ancient sacred site, mixing tree with land shaping.

And here's the kind of oak I think of :

[wraitii]

I like the idea of the big oak. It probably fits the gaul more than some fancy menhir thing.

[Ludo38]

@Mythos_Ruler : here is the grass texture :

It's tileable.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Ludo, it's not a bad idea, and would work for the Gauls. It would just take a lot of animation work to get a big tree to look like it's growing correctly. Not against it though. We could just make the White Horse and Stonehenge and give them to the two Celtic civs and then later after most everything else more important is done, look into the Sanctuary Tree idea.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ludo38 thank you for think similar XD , merge all we know about Celtics, runes, dolmens aroun a big tree.

Here are good argument to defend that idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_polytheism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_worship

Little Mention of Celtic Gods

According to Nora Chadwick, the classical Greek and Roman writers who first encountered Celtic peoples made scant reference to Celtic gods. What was written, as for example by Julius Caesar, described the Celtic gods most commonly worshipped, but saw them in terms of Roman deities.

However, classical records did describe the sanctuaries of the Celts: Nora Chadwick states, “These were found frequently in sacred woods and near lakes, including, it would seem, what are now bogs and swamps. It has been shown that life in towns or cities was foreign to Celtic tradition, and some of the sanctuaries of the Celt reflect a ritual preoccupation with the natural environment.”

In other words, the Celts worshipped in natural temples, not man-made ones—very different from the ways of the Romans. Nora Chadwick further tells of sacred woods and groves used by the Celts: “Our evidence suggests that throughout Celtic lands many sanctuaries were located in woodlands.”

In Celtic Mythology, Trees were Sacred

The Celts, like all ancient peoples, relied on plants in daily life for food, medicine, and tools. Further, they especially relied on trees for shelter and fuel. Among the indispensable trees and shrubs used by the Celts were oak, yew, ash, elder, holly, hawthorn, briar, birch, rowan and hazel, each with its associated folklore and sacred powers.

But beyond mere reliance, the Celts revered the trees which then covered the British Isles in vast thick forests. In Celtic mythology, trees are personified with qualities both good and evil. Caitlin and John Matthews state, “Among the Celts, trees were always considered to be sacred and were recognized as repositories of memory, lore and the presence of spirit-beings.”

Edited September 1, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

That they themselves Jove oftentimes have seen...

According to the Roman authors Lucan and Pomponius Mela, the Celts of Gaul worshipped in groves of trees, a practice which Tacitus and Dio Cassius say was also found among the Celts in Britain. The Romans used the Celtic word nemeton for these sacred groves. A sacred oak grove in Galatia (Asia Minor), for example, was called Drunemeton (Strabo, Geographica, XII, 5, 1). The word was also incorporated into many of the names of towns and forts, such as Vernemeton near Leicester in England.

The names of certain Celtic tribes in Gaul reflect the veneration of trees, such as Euburones (the Yew tribe), and the Lemovices (the people of the elm). A tree trunk or a whole tree was frequently included among the votive offerings placed in ritual pits or shafts dug into the ground. Others shafts had a wooden pole placed at the bottom. The Celts believed trees to be sources of sacred wisdom, and the hazel in particular was associated with wisdom by the Druids.

[Ludo38]

Good reference work Lion!

Enrique has helped me to export and test the Stonehenge model. (it's my first 3D in-game import experience!) and it worked, the model opened in Atlas, but there are a few texture issues to fix. No big deal. The model might be commited in about 2 hours.

[Lion.Kanzen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_tree_worship

Celtic Druid Grove

See you click in the link, you can see whst are the Trees that are Sacred For Celt, now in Desertical maps can be hard to do.

I can imagine a big tree. Is very similar to Tree of life but with Celtic stone around, this Natural monument can have fire, water to represent all 4 elements that Celts worship. Earth, Water, Fire and Wind.

Almost all kinds of tree found in the Celtic countries have been thought to have special powers or to serve as the abode of the fairies, especially the magical trio of oak, ash, and thorn. Next in rank are the fruit-bearing trees apple and hazel, followed by the alder, elder, holly, and willow. The esteem given different trees varies in different parts of the Celtic world; on the Isle of Man, the phrase ‘fairy tree’ denotes the tramman elder.[1] The obscure medieval Welsh poem Cad Goddeu (The Battle of the Trees) has been interpreted as a remnant of Druidic lore, possibly relating to the Celtic tree alphabet ogham found across northwestern Europe.

Attention this too important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_of_oak_and_mistletoe

The ritual of oak and mistletoe is described by Pliny the Elder, writing in the 1st century AD, as a religious ceremony in Gaul in which white-clad druids climbed a sacred oak, cut down the mistletoe growing on it, sacrificed two white bulls and used the mistletoe to cure infertility:[1]

“ The druids – that is what they call their magicians – hold nothing more sacred than the mistletoe and a tree on which it is growing, provided it is Valonia Oak.... Mistletoe is rare and when found it is gathered with great ceremony, and particularly on the sixth day of the moon....Hailing the moon in a native word that means 'healing all things,' they prepare a ritual sacrifice and banquet beneath a tree and bring up two white bulls, whose horns are bound for the first time on this occasion. A priest arrayed in white vestments climbs the tree and, with a golden sickle, cuts down the mistletoe, which is caught in a white cloak. Then finally they kill the victims, praying to a god to render his gift propitious to those on whom he has bestowed it. They believe that mistletoe given in drink will impart fertility to any animal that is barren and that it is an antidote to all poisons[2] ”

Pliny was primarily interested in natural history and some scholars have dismissed the testimony in relation to the druids’ ceremony as largely fanciful, particularly as he is the only classical author to mention this ceremony. Yet Pliny specifically associates druids with oak trees. Oaks were held sacred by both druids and Celts alike. Drunemeton, the ‘oak sanctuary,’ is described by Strabo as a place where the Galatian Council met and oak was used to construct the great Iron Age multi-ring timber structure at Navan Fort in County Armagh.[3] The Poole Logboat and the Corlea Trackway were both made of oak in the Iron Age.[1]

Edited September 1, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

And some props for this can be:

Edited September 1, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen