===[COMMITTED]=== Blacksmith Buildings

[Mythos_Ruler]

Each culture will need a new blacksmith building designed and modeled. We can come up with our own designs, but here are the Age of Kings blacksmith and Age of Mythology armory for reference:

Greeks (Athenians, Macedonians, Spartans, and possibly others)

Celts (Britons, Gauls, possibly others)

Carthaginians (may or may not be buildable in-game, but would be good to have one modeled in case we want to give it to them)

Iberians (might use the current 'barracks' as their blacksmith and design a new barracks for them instead)

Mauryans

Persians (may or may not be buildable in-game, but would be good to have one modeled in case we want to give it to them)

Ptolemaic Egyptians

Romans

[Mythos_Ruler]

Other references:

[Lion.Kanzen]

from Rome Civcity

[Enrique]

Blacksmith concepts for romans and Iberians (Iberian one is based on it's current barracks, barracks model will be redone)

[sanderd17]

Nice blacksmiths. But I think the eye-catcher of the building (the fire with the chimney) is a bit too similar for both buildings.

Maybe try getting the chimney into an other part of the building. Or try a square chimney or fireplace.

Also, the chimney should probably reach as high as the roof top to make it more credible.

[Sighvatr]

I suggest to look up articles on how the ancients forge their metals because that chimney looks like Santa Clause would fit through.

[gab]

that chimney looks like Santa Clause would fit through.

In an historical RTS, buildings are not mean to be completly realistic( the market is a good example ) : they represent concepts more than actual buildings.

As every abowe reference show, a big large chimney is a good way to help the playeur identify his blacksmith(even if it kills some of the realism ^^')

Edited June 18, 2013 by gab

[plumo]

I think it would make more sense if the chimney wasn't connected to the main building (risk of fire etc.)

Also, piles of wood could be added somewhere near to the fire (under a roof).

[Enrique]

Thanks for your feedback guys

I'll make some changes and post progress soon. If you have any articles on how the ancients forge their metals or references, please post.

[Sighvatr]

In an historical RTS, buildings are not mean to be completly realistic( the market is a good example ) : they represent concepts more than actual buildings.

As every abowe reference show, a big large chimney is a good way to help the playeur identify his blacksmith(even if it kills some of the realism ^^')

?!?!? aldifuhaoidhcfaoidjf

Who thinks of a giant outdoor fire chimney as a concept for a blacksmith? If 0 A.D. were about depicting buildings by concept than what they are actually shown historically correct; than why not draw a big anvil and hammer the size of a building itself? Players can easily learn to identify a blacksmith in the game without the big fire chimney. If you had paid attention to the past threads discussing about how a structure should look like, than look in the Art Development sub-forum about the Mauryan structures.

Look in this thread about the Mauryan Defense Tower and see eleven pages of discussion about how every little arch should look like, and whether something should be wooden or stone. http://www.wildfireg...showtopic=16696

If that thread doesn't convince you that 0 A.D. depicts buildings historically correct, there are five or six more threads that talk about Mauryan architecture and props.

@Enrique: I will try to find pictures and articles for you. I know people used pottery in order to create shapes with metal.

EDIT: I wouldn't trust this source of information, but it is interesting to read. http://www.jaysromanhistory.com/romeweb/glossary/timeln/t10.htm

Edited June 18, 2013 by Sighvatr

[gab]

I already read those threads:

http://www.wildfireg...92

I think Josh post sum up things quitte clearly, the building isn't accurate but if it convey a clearer message... "Wow, looks like the Mauryans were big on markets and trade." ^^

(Just like you, I think historical accuracy is great but without a big chimney, we'll need a good way to show the building is more than just a big house : that it is a blacksmith)

Edited June 18, 2013 by gab

[serveurix]

Blacksmith concepts for romans and Iberians (Iberian one is based on it's current barracks, barracks model will be redone)

The blue water looks unrealistic to me, transparent water would probably look better IMHO.

[Enrique]

The blue water looks unrealistic to me, transparent water would probably look better IMHO.

Blue water is a placeholder. We have a nice water material for water in buildings in-game, so don't worry about it, they're only concepts yet

[Ludo38]

A few comments on the two models :

-On the Iberian version, the chimney masonry is shining, which looks unrealistic to me. Chimney should feel rough and dirty, not shiny.

-On the Roman version, I find the tiled terrace very out of place, not working at all with the rest of the building. Also the two vaults on the left, for now look too clean and "plastic".

Generally, I imagine blacksmiths as pretty rough constructions, looking very different than houses, with a utilitarian and steady feel.

So, the Iberian works very well for me, while the Roman needs to be rethinked in term of architecture (maybe less windows, less nice roofs and arches).

[Zaggy1024]

-On the Roman version, I find the tiled terrace very out of place, not working at all with the rest of the building. Also the two vaults on the left, for now look too clean and "plastic".

That may just be because of mipmapping and/or antialiasing, although I think that bit of the texture map might not be the best quality.

Generally, I imagine blacksmiths as pretty rough constructions, looking very different than houses, with a utilitarian and steady feel.

So, the Iberian works very well for me, while the Roman needs to be rethinked in term of architecture (maybe less windows, less nice roofs and arches).

Yeah, the second floor would probably be pretty useless (and perhaps expensive) to a blacksmith.

[Lion.Kanzen]

When you can committed to svn? And what are other to investigate in the web? The Persian and Carthaginian probably can be more difficult to find a good reference.(historic or 3d reference) but I hope can find more possible examples.

[Enrique]

Made some changes with your feedback. Still WIP

[Ludo38]

Made some changes with your feedback. Still WIP

Ah, it's much better, yes. Mmm, If you don't mind some more comment :

-the masonry texture of the chimney, I'm not sure it is a good choice. I'd rather choose an classic orthogonal masonry, not a "random" one.

-the tiled floor seems unadapted to the place, probably too fragile for the heavy work of a blacksmith. I'd more see some large stone slabs.

-I also wonder about the second level, feeling like a house, almost a house of nowadays, which kind of breaks the feel of ancient architecture... Well, maybe it works...

-the frame around the big opening on the right wing looks (for now) a bit too thin and stone-textured. It probably should be a piece of timber.

Out of that, it now has a real blacksmith look.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Made some changes with your feedback. Still WIP

That's fantastic. The texture on the chimney looks a bit stretched (is it?). But unlike Ludo I think it looks fine. I particularly like the hanging chainmail.

[plumo]

The fire is too neat (texture of chimney). What if you made it look bigger? Like a real furnace.

Also: I agree with Ludo: the tiled floor is unnecessary. Dirt should do the trick

[Mythos_Ruler]

I'm really not too nitpicky here. There are still like 6 or 7 more of these to go.

I asked Pureon to try his hand at the Persian and Carthaginian blacksmiths, since he was the one who modeled those sets.

I do think there needs to be these things in the final products:

Smoke prop point

Garrisoned prop point*

Projectile prop point*

Ambient Occlusion Maps

*--Every building should have these. We do not yet know if they'll ever be needed or not. It is much better to just include them instead of later having to add them in. Plus, modding.

[Enrique]

That's fantastic. The texture on the chimney looks a bit stretched (is it?). But unlike Ludo I think it looks fine. I particularly like the hanging chainmail.

Yes it is, it's a little stretched but that will be fixed. I tried with the other grey bricks texture (the one used by the roman fortress) but didn't looked as good as this IMO.

The fire is too neat (texture of chimney). What if you made it look bigger? Like a real furnace.

Also: I agree with Ludo: the tiled floor is unnecessary. Dirt should do the trick

I'll remove the tiles then, but it looks like the blacksmith is more outdoors than indoors that way

I'm going to give the last touches to both blacksmiths (needed props points are already in place) and figure something out to avoid floating props on uneven terrain (most props are placed on the ground and may be a problem)

After that I'll start with the greek and celt blacksmiths (that will be tomorrow)

[Enrique]

Two celt blacksmith concepts. Not sure which direction to go, or if give it one to brits and the other to gauls. Props not final. Chimney is big and 4 sided to reflect the "advantage" of celts in blacksmithing. It's also separated from the main structure for safety reasons because of the roofs.

[Unarmed]

I think it's great. The only thing I'm not that keen on is the symbol above the door, but I'm not bothered by it and am not going to mention it again.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Two celt blacksmith concepts. Not sure which direction to go, or if give it one to brits and the other to gauls. Props not final. Chimney is big and 4 sided to reflect the "advantage" of celts in blacksmithing. It's also separated from the main structure for safety reasons because of the roofs.

I like the left one. Maybe mirror it left to right so the "bigger" part is on the right side like all the other blacksmiths.