[Discussion] Blacksmith

[Mythos_Ruler]

Design Committee Thread here: http://www.wildfireg...showtopic=17311

My thoughts:

Some have suggested and I like the idea of adding a Blacksmith structure for most factions. Basically, every faction that only has 1 barracks structure would get the structure (all except Persians, who have a Stables, and Carthaginians, who have multiple Embassies). The technology tree for the Barracks then would focus on Train Time, Health, Speed, and Basic->Advanced->Elite upgrade, while the Blacksmith's tech tree would focus on Weapons (attack) and Armor.

I've already prototyped it (with a generic placeholder building model) and I like it a lot. What would be needed are:

1.) A blacksmith building model

• Hellenic civs (Athenians, Macedonians, Spartans) can share the same model, just with different civ-specific shield props.
  
• Celtic civs (Britons, Gauls) can share the same model and props.
  
• Iberians can use their current "barracks" model for use as their Blacksmith, while we model a new barracks for them.
  
• Romans may need to revamp the barracks a bit, since it looks a lot like a blacksmith, but it won't be too hard.
  
• As mentioned above, Persians and Carthaginians wouldn't receive a blacksmith. They already have to build a 2nd structure.
  

2. A "Blacksmith" structure portrait. A hammer and anvil would look nice. We can reuse the "metalworker" tech portrait for now.

3. Custom "structure complete" and "selection" sound effects.

4. <SpecificName> for each culture's blacksmith.

• Romans: Armamentarium (means: Armory). Rename barracks to Castra, which is more accurate anyway.
  
• Greeks: Khalkeîon.
  
• Iberians?
  
• Celts?
  
• Mauryans?
  
• Ptolemies?
  

[Enrique]

I like the idea. It makes sense to me. More building diversity, more time on the barracks to produce units. Questions: phase 1 or 2? resource cost? Will it have siege upgrades also?

[Mythos_Ruler]

I like the idea. It makes sense to me. More building diversity, more time on the barracks to produce units. Questions: phase 1 or 2? resource cost? Will it have siege upgrades also?

Town Phase. 200 Wood, maybe. Figured we could keep the siege techs in the Fortress.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Some ideas and suggestions, each faction, can have specials armor, for example roman armor Lorica hamata. And helmet, like montefortino. Greek with Doric Helmet, and upgrades to have elephant armor. And if bonus per each special or unique armor can be different based in historic effectiveness, with armor exponential system that be easy to feel into gameplay. For example : what is best a Scutum or hoplon. Obviously without controversy. I found this in the following link http://historum.com/war-military-history/2659-shield-most-effective.html

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

I am really glad to see that the blacksmith structure is being added. Perhaps particular units could not be trained without one and could not reach the elite rank without one.

[Lion.Kanzen]

I Agree with you Thorffine, that do more old school gameplay.

[WhiteTreePaladin]

I was hoping we would have blacksmiths, so that sounds good to me. I still think we might want them for the Persians and Carthaginians though.

[sanderd17]

will it only be for tech research? or will it also have a separate unit you can create with it? or a certain aura or other bonus.

if it's only for tech research, one building will be enough, while it's nice to see cities with a big diversity of buildings.

If I may propose a unit, what about a 'repairer', someone who can't fight, but who can repair buildings quite fast (repairing buildings with normal units is slow, and usually not worth the effort).

[Lion.Kanzen]

Like mule in sc2? I like that idea to have special citizen.

[Atenmeses52]

Here are some names for it:

For the Ptolemaic name, the Egyptian is ḥwt-ḫȝw (pron. Hoot-Khau or Hoot-Ghau)

For the Iberians, the Basque word for blacksmith is errementari

For the Celts: Gabha

Mauryans: lohakAra

[alpha123]

I was hoping we would have blacksmiths, so that sounds good to me. I still think we might want them for the Persians and Carthaginians though.

I think Persians should have it but not Carthaginians. Carthage can live with fewer techs as a penalty for having such a wide variety of units.

If I may propose a unit, what about a 'repairer', someone who can't fight, but who can repair buildings quite fast (repairing buildings with normal units is slow, and usually not worth the effort).

That would be very cool. It's true, currently repairing things is quite useless. I think the normal repair rate should go up a little bit, and something like a fast-repairing (and possibly fast-gathering?) unit would be cool.

[zoot]

There is a ticket for the repair rate: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/633

[sanderd17]

There is a ticket for the repair rate: http://trac.wildfire....com/ticket/633

I didn't know repair rate was bound to build rate, that could make the implementation a bit more difficult.

[idanwin]

I would not go for a separate repair unit (and certainly no fast gathering unit).

No units should be trained in the blacksmith's in my opinion.

Also no aura, what would be the explanation for this? Faster rearming after throwing a pilum? xD Let's not over complicate things like this.

Units that become available in the barracks once the blacksmith has been built/certain research in the bs has been done sounds great though. Enabling the 'elite' ranking only when you have a bs also sounds good but may be difficult to explain to new players.

Not giving bs to certain civs could be confusing, but I do admit that the arguments on which this decision was based are valid.

An increase in repair rate sound good to me. Repair rate should be bound to build rate, but could be multiplied by 1.5 or something?

[Lion.Kanzen]

I agree with this topic idawin in garrison units to quickly load their projectiles this applies to units with second attack, so I would give them no advantage over units such as archers and skirmishers.

The units would be:

Roman swordsman

Persian Inmortal

Elephants melee

Surely there must be a only building technologies, and upgrades, special for each civilization in the game. Do not you guys think but the more technologies possess the game the gameplay will be different, and that's what makes players do not get bored, that for every game they played a new decision, a set new plans.

---------traduced by google translator app---------

[Mythos_Ruler]

I don't think the game will have "ammo." However, what if the blacksmith researches faster if you garrison some citizen(-soldiers) inside?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Regular archers no. Is no total war. But units with second attack. Is idea for limited special bonus attack.

[idanwin]

What if the blacksmith researches faster if you garrison some citizen(-soldiers) inside?

I like that. Maybe unit building speed could go up for all barracks when you garrison citizen soldiers in a blacksmith as well (weapons/armor are produced faster). But that's getting complicated again...

Anyway the blacksmith will need to have a lot of researchable techs if you want this to have any noticeable effect on gameplay.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Garrison max 4 . adds 25% of faster research for each units inside.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Rolle]

For the Iberians, the Basque word for blacksmith is errementari

Its a common mistake to think that basques are the same people as Iberians, when they are different cultures, they both lived in different areas with different language (Iberians come from indo-european language), as you can see in this picture: (basques = vascones)

Anyways the correct word for blacksmith is Herreria

[Lion.Kanzen]

Basque is used because we don't know what language speak Iberian before the romanization.

.....

The optimization topic.

http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16991

[Rolle]

Indeed is unknown, but is better to use the modern spanish word Herreria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_language

Thank you for the post.

[wraitii]

The basque words sounds like a Basquization of the roman word, though, so I'd advise using something else.

[Lion.Kanzen]

You are right, many of these words are used in Modern Spanish, Herreria I don't found unknow. But not sound to Latin.