Topic for cry and complain about balance

[Dakara]

Hey 

just type umbalane things !

 

Spear 111 hp for some civ but 100 for other, no sense

cata too much hp

héroe OP

[Arup]

champ cav is nonsensically fast

naked fana has capture speed of a champ despite not having any of the drawbacks of a regular champ 

palisades are useless,but when spammed are somewhat annoying

catas too op

[Perzival12]

Everyone think that game needs more balance!

Too balanced!

Not fun!

Catas fine! Fanatics and champ cav fine!

Stop ruining game!

It's going to be boring!

Stagnant!

Old!

Everyone leave and play mods only!

No one wants to play same civ with different colors!

STTTTOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!

[diagonalo]

nerf the Persia, proof: https://www.youtube.com/@SaidRdzRTS

-20 = 200 pop

[Thalatta]

4 hours ago, Perzival12 said:

No one wants to play same civ with different colors!

I totally agree, but there are some issues that maybe need some more thought:

-"Spear 111 hp for some civ but 100 for other, no sense": I don't see a problem with this, it could be some civ equipment characteristic. Maybe it would be nice to specify why exactly.

-"cata too much hp", "catas too op": it has been said that the whole siege stuff is messed up, and that engines were capturable at some point. I've argued that civs should be able to capture/use them after building the Arsenal.

-"héroe OP": it has been argued that the unit represents the whole retinue, which would be composed of the most elite warriors (most units would actually represent a bunch of them).

-"champ cav is nonsensically fast", "naked fana has capture speed of a champ despite not having any of the drawbacks of a regular champ": it doesn't seem ideal to have units banned from games (and people whining about if they are being produced or not). Can't champion cavalry be more expensive, and naked fanatics have less resistance, for example? Or whatever that doesn't give an unfair advantage, without making things bland. Personally I don't care about unbalanced factions, but plenty of people here are too obsessed with MP, so there's that.

-"palisades are useless,but when spammed are somewhat annoying": I'm not a fan of the "territory" stuff, but given that's there, I don't get why palisades can be built outside of it, doesn't this just enhance spamming? It doesn't make much sense to build palisades in the middle of nowhere, considering that they needed maintenance (the wood would rot). On the other hand, making them a bit stronger but weaker against siege would make them useful in the early game and not annoying later. Maybe civs that have weak siege should have other advantages, like fire units, if even. Also, Towers should be able to be built just besides Palisades (while pressing CTRL), Walls don't have this problem. Ideally, but more radically (and needing new animations), Palisades and Walls should be strong but not very useful if not supported: some units could be able to slowly climb over them, but have extremely reduced resistance when doing so, making Palisades and Walls quite useful when combined with Towers or ranged units.

 

[Perzival12]

29 minutes ago, Thalatta said:

-"cata too much hp", "catas too op": it has been said that the whole siege stuff is messed up, and that engines were capturable at some point. I've argued that civs should be able to capture/use them after building the Arsenal.

Yeah, I think being able to capture and use enemy siege machines (I don't know about building them) would balance their damage and health. Or maybe making them less resistant to Pierce damage.

31 minutes ago, Thalatta said:

-"héroe OP": it has been argued that the unit represents the whole retinue, which would be composed of the most elite warriors (most units would actually represent a bunch of them).

You can only have one hero at a time, I've never seen this as a problem. Their supposed to be OP.

31 minutes ago, Thalatta said:

-"champ cav is nonsensically fast", "naked fana has capture speed of a champ despite not having any of the drawbacks of a regular champ": it doesn't seem ideal to have units banned from games (and people whining about if they are being produced or not). Can't champion cavalry be more expensive, and naked fanatics have less resistance, for example? Or whatever that doesn't give an unfair advantage, without making things bland. Personally I don't care about unbalanced factions, but plenty of people here are too obsessed with MP, so there's that.

I think both are good ideas, Fanatics are WAY too resistant for being naked (IMO, they should have almost no resistance, but tons of damage), and champ cav maybe could be slowed down/more expensive. I play MP pretty frequently, (not on the scale that I know others do though), and I personally have only ever found Elephants OP.

35 minutes ago, Thalatta said:

-"palisades are useless,but when spammed are somewhat annoying": I'm not a fan of the "territory" stuff, but given that's there, I don't get why palisades can be built outside of it, doesn't this just enhance spamming? It doesn't make much sense to build palisades in the middle of nowhere, considering that they needed maintenance (the wood would rot). On the other hand, making them a bit stronger but weaker against siege would make them useful in the early game and not annoying later. Maybe civs that have weak siege should have other advantages, like fire units, if even. Also, Towers should be able to be built just besides Palisades (while pressing CTRL), Walls don't have this problem. Ideally, but more radically (and needing new animations), Palisades and Walls should be strong but not very useful if not supported: some units could be able to slowly climb over them, but have extremely reduced resistance when doing so, making Palisades and Walls quite useful when combined with Towers or ranged units.

Walls are broken in general, but the best fix to this is to make palisades only build able in owned territory, and to maybe allow them to upgrade to real walls when those are unlocked. This would mean the player wouldn't have to delete them, making real walls more valuable as well.

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

1 hour ago, Thalatta said:

"cata too much hp", "catas too op": it has been said that the whole siege stuff is messed up, and that engines were capturable at some point. I've argued that civs should be able to capture/use them after building the Arsenal.

Perhaps some technology could be implemented to create a mechanism to prevent  from switching sides constantly.

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, Perzival12 said:

maybe allow them to upgrade to real walls when those are unlocked. This would mean the player wouldn't have to delete them, making real walls more valuable as well.

I've proposed to update them to mud-brick walls (for relevant civs), but stone walls would also do, I wonder why this is not already the case. 

 

49 minutes ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

Perhaps some technology could be implemented to create a mechanism to prevent  from switching sides constantly.

I think this should be the default mechanism, no tech needed (unless there's some strong historical reason). Some have proposed some timer for the engine to be useful after capture, but I don't see this as too different from a longer capture time. Ideally, the default operators should be killed before the engine can be captured, and a mechanism of how to replace them implemented, to fulfil the "timer" role more realistically and separately from the capture itself, and avoid constant switching. This is basically the "base garrison" idea I've proposed before (although I've argued that capture points wouldn't even be needed in that case, to simplify things).

Edited 57 minutes ago by Thalatta