Theban Greeks (release 28)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

So, I've uploaded release 28 to mod.io: https://mod.io/g/0ad/m/theban-greeks#discussion

Just waiting for approval! Luckily it's a very small mod (under 2mb).

Here's the pyromod if you'd like to test it before it goes live on mod.io

 

theban-greeks.pyromod

 

 

Any suggestions on how to improve the mod? Keep in mind, it's a simple civ mod which adds to the base game and isn't intended to change the gameplay of the rest of the civs or change the meta (such as in Delenda Est). 

[Thalatta]

Besides the obvious Epaminondas and Sacred Band, I’m happy you have included their “fire-throwing engine”.

From the top of my mind, I can suggest the Hamippoi ("those running with horses"), highly mobile light infantry (possibly javelinmen) that ran alongside cavalry and countered enemy cavalry (maybe could have mutual bonus). Xenophon says “Epaminondas on the other hand had made a strong column of his cavalry, also, and had mingled foot soldiers among them”, and says that “Another duty of a cavalry commander is to demonstrate to the city the weakness of cavalry destitute of infantry as compared with cavalry that has infantry attached to it. Further, having got his infantry, a cavalry commander should make use of it. A mounted man being much higher than a man on foot, infantry may be hidden away not only among the cavalry but in the rear as well“. Found this video about them (where at the end he mentions the Macedonians also using them), and since they are more a role for the fit and not a completely different unit, maybe it could relate to unit upgrade with experience:

 

Regarding special structures, the Tropaion of Leuctra (trophy monument for their victory against the Spartans) still stands today a few km away from Thebes (where there's not a lot still standing), although only the top stone shields are original. Here the photo I took of it:

Edited yesterday at 09:52 by Thalatta

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Thalatta said:

From the top of my mind, I can suggest the Hamippoi ("those running with horses"), highly mobile light infantry (possibly javelinmen) that ran alongside cavalry and countered enemy cavalry (maybe could have mutual bonus). Xenophon says “Epaminondas on the other hand had made a strong column of his cavalry, also, and had mingled foot soldiers among them”, and says that “Another duty of a cavalry commander is to demonstrate to the city the weakness of cavalry destitute of infantry as compared with cavalry that has infantry attached to it. Further, having got his infantry, a cavalry commander should make use of it. A mounted man being much higher than a man on foot, infantry may be hidden away not only among the cavalry but in the rear as well“. Found this video about them (where at the end he mentions the Macedonians also using them), and since they are more a role for the fit and not a completely different unit, maybe it could relate to unit upgrade with experience:

I'll see what I can do with this one. I have an idea to make it their 2nd champion by utilizing the horse prop point use for cavalry gathering. 

 

1 hour ago, Thalatta said:

Regarding special structures, the Tropaion of Leuctra (trophy monument for their victory against the Spartans) still stands today a few km away from Thebes (where there's not a lot still standing), although only the top stone shields are original. Here the photo I took of it:

This is a good idea for a special building (vanilla) and their cult statue (DE). Any idea of the original look (hypothetical reconstruction)? Is there an illustration anywhere?

[Asher]

I tried it a little, but I got this when I clicked on barracks:

 

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Any idea of the original look (hypothetical reconstruction)? Is there an illustration anywhere?

Good that you ask, because it seems it would have looked different. According to Greek Trophy Monuments, by Jutta Stroszeck: "The monument at Leuctra is a circular tower (3,38m in diameter) erected on three steps. The height of the tower could not be established, because there were not enough original stones. It was therefore restored in proportion. It is crowned by a Doric frieze, followed by a frieze of nine large round shields and a circular balustrade. Excavations carried out in the area brought to light some scattered conglomerate blocks, but no foundations in situ. So we have no information on whether or not it stood within a defining space. The interior of the monument is hollow, without any doubt for the reception of the [foundation for the] bronze trophy,' as Orlandos remarked. The bronze tropaion mentioned in the texts and shown on coins of the Boeotian Koinon must therefore have once stood on a pillar-like base in the center of the monument, rising high above the balustrade. The form of this monument is distinctive, the ground plan can be reconstructed as a round tower with a massive central base carrying the tropaion. Few analogies are known in architecture, and yet it does not seem likely that the monument at Leuctra was an invention for that occasion. It rather must have stood in line with an older tradition, the type and layout being developed much earlier. That ancient art was rather conservative with regard to the use of specific architectural types, especially in combination with cult buildings, can be deduced by comparing the main features of the two colossal Roman trophies that are preserved today: both the trophies from La Turbie and Adamklissi have a cylindrical central tower set on top of a quadrangular substructure. Each is crowned by a central pillar carrying the anthropomorphic stone trophy". Here drawings from the book:
 

Edited yesterday at 11:52 by Thalatta
In case it's not clear, that "stick" coming from the back of the bronze statue is the scabbard, hanging higher up than most are used to seeing.

[guerringuerrin]

Nice work @wowgetoffyourcellphone!

I found some bugs, i'm not sure if this is only on my end. I'm using R28 vanila without any other mod than this.

When building barracks and stables:

Spoiler

 

ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/infantry_archer_b:1: Expecting an element Undeletable, got nothing
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/infantry_archer_b:1: Invalid sequence in interleave
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/infantry_archer_b:1: Element Identity failed to validate content
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'
ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/theb/infantry_archer_b'
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/champion_infantry_hoplite:1: Expecting an element Undeletable, got nothing
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/champion_infantry_hoplite:1: Invalid sequence in interleave
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/champion_infantry_hoplite:1: Element Identity failed to validate content
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'
ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/theb/champion_infantry_hoplite'
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/champion_infantry_swordsman:1: Expecting an element Undeletable, got nothing
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/champion_infantry_swordsman:1: Invalid sequence in interleave
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/champion_infantry_swordsman:1: Element Identity failed to validate content
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'
ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/theb/champion_infantry_swordsman'
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/cavalry_spearman_b:1: Expecting an element Undeletable, got nothing
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/cavalry_spearman_b:1: Invalid sequence in interleave
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation error: units/theb/cavalry_spearman_b:1: Element Identity failed to validate content
ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Validation failed for '(null)'
ERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/theb/cavalry_spearman_b'

 

 

And some more of them when selecting those built barracks and stables, probably related to the same issue:

Spoiler

 

ERROR: Errors executing script event "Tick"

ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/session/session.js line 224 deepfreeze requires exactly one object as an argument. GetTemplateData@gui/session/session.js:224:34 setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1004:35 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:95:35 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:153:18 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:547:20 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onTick@gui/session/session.js:635:3 __eventhandler273 (Tick)@session Tick:1:1

ERROR: Errors executing script event "SimulationUpdate"

ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/session/session.js line 224 deepfreeze requires exactly one object as an argument. GetTemplateData@gui/session/session.js:224:34 setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1004:35 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:95:35 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:153:18 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:547:20 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onSimulationUpdate@gui/session/session.js:682:2 __eventhandler275 (SimulationUpdate)@session SimulationUpdate:1:1

 

 

Dying heros:

ERROR: CCacheLoader failed to find archived or source file for: "art/materials/player_trans_spec.xml"
ERROR: CCacheLoader failed to find archived or source file for: "art/materials/player_trans_spec.xml"

 

Edit: and this last one. Duplicated fertility festival:

Edited yesterday at 11:40 by guerringuerrin

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This is a good idea for a special building (vanilla) and their cult statue (DE).

In case more is needed, another great monument they had is the Lion of Chaeronea (this time commemorating a defeat, against the Macedonians). It was rediscovered in 1818 and put back together in 1902. Not my picture (sadly it was hard for me to visit):

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

UPDATE. Please test for errors. 

theban-greeks.pyromod

[guerringuerrin]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone everything working good now!

The Pyrobolos sinks straight into the ground when it dies. I assume it’s because there’s no destruction animation for the structure (units die with an animation).

Black cloak champs looks awesome

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 minutes ago, guerringuerrin said:

The Pyrobolos sinks straight into the ground when it dies. I assume it’s because there’s no destruction animation for the structure (units die with an animation).

Indeed! Maybe a challenge for @Alexandermb? 

[Emacz]

@wowgetoffyourcellphonemay we incorporate them into Classical Warfare AEA?

I'm also wondering if there is a way to incorporate parts, without adding a full civ (only because it seems sometimes there are too many civ options ) Allies to someone, merc for anyone etc?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 minutes ago, Emacz said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphonemay we incorporate them into Classical Warfare AEA?

Go ahead.

[Outis]

On 28/04/2026 at 4:54 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Any suggestions on how to improve the mod?

I propose to "localize/specify" slingers as Malian Slingers.

Historical reference:

https://www.hi.uni-stuttgart.de/wgt/ww-one/Start/Bleed_White/Technology_and_Science/ww1_ger_08_03_02.html

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, Outis said:

I propose to "localize/specify" slingers as Malian Slingers.

Historical reference:

https://www.hi.uni-stuttgart.de/wgt/ww-one/Start/Bleed_White/Technology_and_Science/ww1_ger_08_03_02.html

Given the “darter” mention, I searched, and in another part of History of the Peloponnesian War, Tuchydides writes: “Athenian and allied; a large number of darters, Hellenic and barbarian, and slingers and archers and everything else upon a corresponding scale”, which reminds me that this and most games don’t take darters into account :p

 

Regarding your proposal, it makes sense, and there’s another instance I can find to support it: Diodorus Siculus, writing about the Battle of Mantinea (of 362 BC) says “the Thebans had three times as many slingers and javelin-throwers sent them from the regions about Thessaly”, and the Malian Gulf would be the region “about Thessaly” (at the time, it would be considered part of Thessaly a couple of centuries later) closer to the battle.

He also writes that “Epameinondas, without resting the entire night, covered the distance at top speed and at daybreak attacked Sparta”, which could maybe justify a speed bonus.

 

I leave you with his epic account of the death of Epaminondas:

As for the Lacedemonians, when they saw that Epameinondas in the fury of battle was pressing forward too eagerly, they charged him in a body. As missiles flew thick and fast about him, he dodged some, others he fended off, still others he pulled from his body and used to ward off his attackers. But while struggling heroically for the victory, he received a mortal wound in the chest. As the spear broke and the iron point was left in his body, he fell of a sudden, his strength sapped by the wound. About his body a rivalry ensued in which many were slain on both sides, but at last with difficulty by their superiority in bodily strength, the Thebans wore the Lacedemonians out. (...) Epameinondas, however, was carried back to camp still living, and the physicians were summoned, but when they declared that undoubtedly as soon as the spear-point should be drawn from his chest, death would ensue, with supreme courage he met his end. For first summoning his armour-bearer he asked him if he had saved his shield. On his replying yes and placing it before his eyes, he again asked, which side was victorious. At the boy's answer that the Boeotians were victorious, he said, “It is time to die,” and directed them to withdraw the spear point. His friends press cried out in protest, and one of them said: “You die childless, Epameinondas,” and burst into tears. To this he replied, “No, by Zeus, on the contrary I leave behind two daughters, Leuctra and Mantineia, my victories.” Then when the spear point was withdrawn, without any commotion he breathed his last.