Changes to Horsemen

[Perzival12]

Over the weekend, I had this idea: what if horsemen were more realistic cost-wise. In ancient times, horses cost money to buy, and there was limited space for them. So, I propose these ideas:

- All horsemen should cost 25 metal, to reflect their cost.

- Their should be limited space for horses, with barracks adding 10 horse room and stables adding 25.

- A technology should be researchable at the corral: Horse Breeding. This would remove the metal cost, reflecting that horses are being bred, not bought.

These are just some ideas. If anyone likes them, maybe I'll post some small mod adding these to the game.

[Deicide4u]

I'm guessing you hate Champion cavalry, too?

Spearmen poke horse. Horse dies. Rider dies from broken neck. Use the boys with pointy sticks.

[Perzival12]

13 minutes ago, Deicide4u said:

Spearmen poke horse. Horse dies. Rider dies from broken neck. Use the boys with pointy sticks.

Yeah, what if when a horseman (any) dies, there is a chance that the rider survives, and only the horse dies. Then, the rider could get up and keep fighting. It would be a smaller chance, to deal with the fact that being thrown from a horse while wearing armor and in a battle would probably kill the rider anyways, but it would still be cool

[Classic-Burger]

4 hours ago, Perzival12 said:

Their should be limited space for horses, with barracks adding 10 horse room and stables adding 25.

I've already thought about it, but I know these people. 0AD is a horse cavalry simulator.

They're going to tell you: nope.

 

I don't want to be demotivating.

[Classic-Burger]

4 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

Use the boys with pointy sticks.

That was helpful like 2 years ago.

[LienRag]

Actually, big horses that can't feed on pasture only cost money.

Smaller horses (mongolians, US mustangs - yes I know, not the same time period, and afaik berber horses) don't; they cost food and care.

So basically we already have that in the game : skirmish cavalry costs food, war cavalry costs gold.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I think the game should look into population costs again.

Support/Civilian: 1 pop

Infantry: 2 pop

Cavalry: 3 pop

 

DE does this^

 

I also think gathering speeds should be regularized. All gathering stats the same for all gatherers, but the gathering speed differs.

Citizen-Civilians: 1x

Citizen-Soldiers: 0.5x

Citizen-Cavalry: 3x meat

So you know more intuitively what you're getting instead of variations per unit type and resource type. You know that that gathering rates of Citizen-Soldiers is the same as Citizen-Civilians, just half speed.

[Deicide4u]

26 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I also think gathering speeds should be regularized. All gathering stats the same for all gatherers, but the gathering speed differs.

Citizen-Civilians: 1x

Citizen-Soldiers: 0.5x

Citizen-Cavalry: 3x meat

That makes sense. So, there would be a choice: you either boom or play more aggressively. People would actually train Civilians instead of hard-capping them at 50 (for those 10 full farms). 

For the population costs, I think changing them too much would impede the unit choice for people who like to play with lower pop caps. Making Champions cost 2 population and siege costing 3 would be a compromise.

I even reversed the population costs in my mod because you simply didn't get enough units on the map.

[Perzival12]

32 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I think the game should look into population costs again.

Support/Civilian: 1 pop

Infantry: 2 pop

Cavalry: 3 pop

Infantry should use the same pop as civilian units, and horsemen should cost 2 pop (one for the rider, one for the horse). Elephants should remain at 3 pop. But siege machines should vary per operators in it’s model.

[Classic-Burger]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Cavalry: 3 pop

Elephant/Chariot 4 pop

And lower the health and armor of all ranged units.Those that cost food and wood above all.

The skirmisher cavalry shouldn't be that strong.

[Classic-Burger]

2 minutes ago, Classic-Burger said:

Elephant/Chariot 4 pop

And lower the health and armor of all ranged units.Those that cost food and wood above all.

The skirmisher cavalry shouldn't be that strong.

Note one additional for not only the rider but also the "janitor"(Speculative unit that does not appear in the game).

[Perzival12]

2 minutes ago, Classic-Burger said:

The skirmisher cavalry shouldn't be that strong.

Yeah, they are trained for speed and wearing leather armor at most, so their endurance (health) and armor (resistance) should be weaker than other cavalry.

I know that armor for horses was more Medieval, but hero cavalry and maybe some champion cavalry should have horse armor that gives them a higher resistance, but lesser speed. Maybe the Forge could research this? 

3 minutes ago, Classic-Burger said:

Note one additional for not only the rider but also the "janitor"(Speculative unit that does not appear in the game).

You mean like the stable boy or trainer?

[Classic-Burger]

6 minutes ago, Perzival12 said:

 

You mean like the stable boy or trainer?

The one who feeds and bathes the animals, or the one who repairs the chariots.

[Outis]

I think he means the guy who sweeps the elephant poop away 

No wonder the guy doesnt want to appear in the game...

Edited 2 hours ago by Outis

[Classic-Burger]

5 minutes ago, Outis said:

I think he means the guy who sweeps the elephant poop away 

No wonder the guy doesnt want to appear in the game...

 

 

[Perzival12]

7 minutes ago, Classic-Burger said:

repairs the chariots.

What if chariots that died became a resource or treasure where you could gather wood? Then, sending an an army of chariots is risky: If you win, you can salvage some wood from your downed units, if you lose you just helped the enemy.

[Classic-Burger]

5 minutes ago, Perzival12 said:

What if chariots that died became a resource or treasure where you could gather wood? Then, sending an an army of chariots is risky: If you win, you can salvage some wood from your downed units, if you lose you just helped the enemy.

The chariot is another unit that I don't know how to use.

There should be one for melee and one for shooting(range).

[Perzival12]

6 minutes ago, Classic-Burger said:

The chariot is another unit that I don't know how to use.

Chariots are best for hit-and-runs or harassing enemy gatherers.

[Classic-Burger]

2 minutes ago, Perzival12 said:

Chariots are best for hit-and-runs or harassing enemy gatherers.

What differentiates it from the horse archer?

[Perzival12]

14 minutes ago, Classic-Burger said:

What differentiates it from the horse archer?

It does more damage and has much more life (three times as much).

[Gurken Khan]

28 minutes ago, Perzival12 said:

has much more life (three times as much)

If you take the Persian champ it's 1.25, but AFAIK it also has a bigger hitbox.

[Classic-Burger]

4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Citizen-Soldiers: 0.5x

Could we do like in AoE I where there was a tech to unlock infantry pop cost?

https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Logistics

Edit: I was wrong, I thought it was population cost.

Edited 6 minutes ago by Classic-Burger