Improving Roman Testudo formation

[Barcodes]

I ran several tests with the testudo formation and found that it currently doesn't seem to provide any functional benefit in terms of defense. Units in testudo are still taking damage from arrows even when they're fired directly at the shields from the front, and they don’t appear any harder to hit in melee combat either. This could be a great area for improvement, as enhancing the testudo to actually reduce ranged and melee damage would not only make it more historically accurate, but also add a valuable tactical option for players looking to counter archers or hold a defensive line more effectively.

[Player of 0AD]

The advantage is that it makes the army very dense. Soldiers dont need to walk that far to help each other, the army can go more easily through narrow passages and your enemy will have difficulties to estimate the numbers correctly.
Do Romans really need a buff currently? They look pretty strong to me.

[Deicide4u]

3 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Do Romans really need a buff currently? They look pretty strong to me.

Strong melee, strong siege. Very strong military in the late game. No, they don't need any more buffs 

But if there's a bug in the formation, then it should be treated as such.

[Emacz]

formations don't really work in game as intended yet.  We created some "auras" for the formations in historical.

"auraName": "testudo",

"Infantry swordsman promote 2% faster, gain .5 Hack and 1 pierce resistance, but  walk/attack speed reduced by 3 %

    "type": "range",

    "radius": 3.5,

[sarcoma]

there seems to be a problem with rally point for romans.
select all barracks, set rally to trees or something.
trained units stay idle next to barracks.
doesnt happen with other civs

[Barcodes]

18 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

The advantage is that it makes the army very dense. Soldiers dont need to walk that far to help each other, the army can go more easily through narrow passages and your enemy will have difficulties to estimate the numbers correctly.
Do Romans really need a buff currently? They look pretty strong to me.

they are pretty strong but would be cool as the formation itself is exclusive to romans so would be interesting if it made them harder to hit. Maybe this could be worked on the legion units, the ones you get after getting the upgrade in the fortress?

[Seleucids]

21 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

Very strong military in the late game.

On paper yes, but no archers and no slingers = you will get sniped and loose all in seconds

[Deicide4u]

1 hour ago, Seleucids said:

but no archers and no slingers = you will get sniped and loose

Late game Roman army is heavily armored infantry and cavalry, supported by lesser armored auxilia. This is historically correct. What isn't historically correct is that army getting slaughtered by slingers, of all things.

If that's the case, maybe we should nerf slingers? I see them getting mentioned as OP all the time. I don't think slingers were OP at any point in history. David beating Goliath using a sling is a story of a miracle, not story of slings being any good as weapons.

[Seleucids]

24 minutes ago, Deicide4u said:

see them getting mentioned as OP all the time. I don't think slingers were OP at any point in

No no no

Slings are Not Op. 

The problem is, every civ is lacking some vital units. Romans lack long ranged units, so anybody with long range units can exploit their weakness by sniping. 

On the other hand , the archer civs have only long range but no DPS so they crumble despite sniping.

I had Ptolemies (especially) and Brits in mind. The ptols can delay the Romans with their pikes, then the slings can just snipe all Javs. Romans have 0 chance. They can't run from the slings. Seleucids will lose all with  KD 0.2 against ptolemies if sniped. Brits and Persians can also snipe Javs with slings. 

The testudo formation does not prevent your from being sniped. 

If you play Vs Petra then you are safe. Petra cannot snipe 

 

[Deicide4u]

10 minutes ago, Seleucids said:

If you play Vs Petra then you are safe. Petra cannot snipe

I assume that by sniping, you mean focus-firing on enemy units by shift-right clicking them with your ranged units. Petra not being able to focus-fire at all is a problem. The AI should have limited ability to do so, in certain situations. Especially on higher difficulties.

The usual counter to this rather basic tactic is flanking the enemy ranged units with your fast melee units. Your archers and slingers are made of tissue paper, they should die rather quickly to a moderately sized melee cavalry formation. If they don't, then it's a balancing issue.

If your archers are defended by spears/pikes, I just disengage until a better position presents itself. You should never have a big advantage in my territory and if you do, then that's my fault for not fortifying my position. So, you can see how it's never that simple. This is a strategy game, there's always a way to win.