Narrative Campaign General Discussion?

[Deicide4u]

25 minutes ago, LienRag said:

I've really enjoyed maybe two or three 0ad games of the quite a lot I've played, which were those where I've been able to do actual tactics rather than just farming and grinding the enemy down...

Big population cap = macro eco boom fest.

You shouldn't do tactics with an abundance of available resources and population space. It's a trade-off that's not worth the extra APM.

In short, this isn't Warcraft 3. It's beyond even the StarCraft's level of macro.

[Thalatta]

@Vantha I think your idea around Carthago Nova as a tutorial is really good, but I wonder if this could be put in the framework of a larger campaign. Stories are interesting when they are character driven, and one of the most interesting characters around that time is Hannibal Barca, and as I see it there are 3 options: to have just Carthago Nova and miss Hannibal's story, to have both separate and risk being thematically repetitive, or what I like most, for the tutorial to be a prelude of a Hannibal campaign. The whole campaign wouldn't need to be ready for just the tutorial to be released first, it could later on be incorporated into the campaign when it's finished.

Regarding how to narrate it, I was thinking about how the Mongol campaign in AoE II is done, the author of The Secret History of the Mongols (as revealed at the beginning) narrates it in cutscenes for each scenario. No cinematics, just drawings, which is how things could be done at first. I think movies like The Last Samurai are nicely told (historical accuracy apart), with the narrator (who takes part in the movie, one realising it at the end) saying something just at the beginning and the end, as an epilogue and prologue. The middle of the campaign would be like a movie, or Starcraft campaigns, for more immersion. Hannibal’s campaign would be the only one with a prelude (tutorial). In it, hints would be given to the player (checkboxes is a great idea, like StarCraft II), but not by the narrator since I feel that cheapens the experience (having some ancient author telling you to click here and there). So, I’d structure them like a book, also with a foreword and afterword (explained in a bit).

Combining all these ideas for a Hannibal campaign, a foreword would briefly explain the contents of it, then as prologue a narrator with drawings could tell about Carthage’s defeat in the First Punic War, and the prelude would be the tutorial, starting with Hamilcar (Hannibal’s father) and Hasdrubal the Fair (his son-in-law) taking Hannibal as a child to Europe, founding Carthago Nova, etc. Then the main campaign would start with Hannibal in command, and end with his defeat in the Second Punic War, with many battles being interesting to have (I hope camouflage will be a thing in the future, for Lake Trasimene, and an ability of Numidian cavalry for Cannae). An epilogue would mention his exile and the later destruction of Carthage in the Third Punic War, that the narrator, revealed around this time to be The Histories author, Polybius, witnessed. An afterword would then mention that he’s remembered as one of the most brilliant tacticians of all time, that Rome would end having his monuments because they considered him their most worthy foe, and that later on the Roman emperor Septimius Severus would be born in those lands, being himself a native Punic speaker, to end on a not so grim note.

I hope all this is somewhat relevant and doesn't deviate too much from the present plans.

Edited 11 hours ago by Thalatta

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

The tutorial could definitely be a "lead in" to a full fledged narrative campaign. I think that is how a lot of games structure their main campaign now. The first few scenarios are for learning, more than anything else. 

[Genava55]

11 hours ago, Thalatta said:

I think your idea around Carthago Nova as a tutorial is really good, but I wonder if this could be put in the framework of a larger campaign. Stories are interesting when they are character driven, and one of the most interesting characters around that time is Hannibal Barca, and as I see it there are 3 options: to have just Carthago Nova and miss Hannibal's story, to have both separate and risk being thematically repetitive, or what I like most, for the tutorial to be a prelude of a Hannibal campaign. The whole campaign wouldn't need to be ready for just the tutorial to be released first, it could later on be incorporated into the campaign when it's finished.

That's why initially I proposed a tutorial on Alexander the Great's youth. Aristotle was his primary tutor from the age of 13.

In 340 BC, the 16 years old Alexander was regent of the kingdom when his father laid siege to Perinthus and Byzantium. He fought and defeated the Maedi revolt, a Thracian tribe. He colonized their territory and founded a city which he named Alexandropolis.

In 338 BC, he participated decisively at the battle of Chaeronea against the Thebans. 

He is clearly the best historical figure for a tutorial that builds to a crescendo and precedes an epic campaign.

Edit, short introductions about the story:

Edit: past messages

On 21/10/2024 at 6:36 PM, Genava55 said:

1. The youth of Alexander the Great, tutored by Aristotle. He then started his military career against the Thracians and Illyrians. Finally, he fought decisively during the Battle of Thebes and Battle of Chaeronea. Several events that could be used for a tutorial. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great
2. The founding of Marseille (Massalia), we could use the myth as a basis for a more free interpretation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_myth_of_Marseille
3. The Ionian Revolt, prelude to the Greco-Persian Wars. Aristagoras is an interesting character. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionian_Revolt

 

On 26/10/2024 at 12:18 PM, Genava55 said:

The advantage with Alexander is that there is more flexibility. Ideally, you would start with a scenario where Alexander is with his first two tutors, Leonidas and Lysimachus, as well as his father accompanied by Aristotle. Philip II could introduce Aristotle to Alexander during a royal hunt, which would be a bit of a pretext to introduce the player to the simplest controls like movement and resource gathering, but also introduce the minimap, fog of war etc. Philip II could convince Aristotle to be his son's new tutor in exchange for rebuilding Stagira.

Then in the second part, there could be a scenario with on one side Aristotle teaching Alexander and his companions in Pella and on the other Philip II rebuilding the city of Stagira to honor Aristotle. In the 3rd part, the player will have more freedom when Alexander will be an adult and will make his first fights and found his first city.

On 21/10/2024 at 9:49 PM, Genava55 said:

1. Alexander learnt to hunt during his childhood and continued to hunt during his adolescence and adult time.
2. He was learning with his companions Ptolemy, Hephaistion, and Cassander at the same spot. So probably they did hunt.
3. There is a minor battle against the Maedi and the founding of a town, Alexandrupolis. https://www.livius.org/articles/place/alexandrupolis/

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Genava55