Narrative Campaign General Discussion?

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

Why not starting from a shipwreck with a handful of men & women plus a hero like in a nomadic mode?

Because we don't have any history with a shipwreck.It is supposed to have a historical background.

[Grautvornix]

34 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Because we don't have any history with a shipwreck.It is supposed to have a historical background.

 Oops - ok then should it start in the middle of somewhere? Or with a little ship that has to be sailed to the nearest coast?

Or should there be a CC already?

[Lion.Kanzen]

16 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

 Oops - ok then should it start in the middle of somewhere? Or with a little ship that has to be sailed to the nearest coast?

Or should there be a CC already?

It is supposed to start with a colony or expansion of a colony.

you can start without the CC.

Edited October 27 by Lion.Kanzen

[Vantha]

1 hour ago, Grautvornix said:

For everything wer might need some guidance material, e.g. a tutor window giving tasks and explaining strategic options (where to build what, how to optimize things etc.). Could that be implemented?

Yes. There already is a basic framework in place used for the existing tutorial. There's also the idea of adding a "coach" for more relaxed practice matches who only every now and then reminds players if they forgot to do something.

 

2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

But what if we do a poll?

what colony will it be?

Yes, let's make a poll. What are the current options?

Edited October 27 by Vantha

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 minute ago, Vantha said:

Yes. There already is a basic framework in place used for the existing tutorial. There's also the idea of adding a "coach" for more relaxed practice matches who only every now and then reminds players if they forgot to do something.

 

Yes, let's make a poll. What are the current options?

One of my candidates is Tarentum, another is Syracuse and another is Agrigentum.

[ShadowOfHassen]

20 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

One of my candidates is Tarentum, another is Syracuse and another is Agrigentum.

Wait... I thought we were doing colonies that were founded by a civ in game. There's no Corinth civ, so how can we have a colony founded by Corinthians?

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Vantha said:

Yes, let's make a poll. What are the current options?

If we are voting, my vote is for Cardia or another Athenian founded colony in the area of Thrace.

 

But currently I've seen like 6 people participate off and on in this discussion, that's not that big for a poll.

[Gurken Khan]

28 minutes ago, Vantha said:

There already is a basic framework in place used for the existing tutorial.

Sooo... The campaign will include a tutorial? Replace the tutorial?

In my mind "tutorial" and "campaign" are different things; of course it could be combined. But I think it would significantly lower the replayability of a campaign if it included a lengthy "pick some berries, collect some sticks" foreplay. Maybe if the tutorial were a skippable prequel?

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

Sooo... The campaign will include a tutorial? Replace the tutorial?

In my mind "tutorial" and "campaign" are different things; of course it could be combined. But I think it would significantly lower the replayability of a campaign if it included a lengthy "pick some berries, collect some sticks" foreplay. Maybe if the tutorial were a skippable prequel?

This is a tutorial campaign, you can skip it.

It is a series of learning scenarios.

In fact, there is a prologue before the main campaigns.

[Lion.Kanzen]

The initial campaign is Greek, the  Greco-Persian Wars.

I don't know whether to make a single story for the Greek factions(classical) or separate them.

The second is the Persian campaign.

I imagine a screen menu and a character being selected.

It would be no different than how they appear in Total War Attila.

  

 

 

Edited October 27 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

39 minutes ago, ShadowOfHassen said:

Wait... I thought we were doing colonies that were founded by a civ in game. There's no Corinth civ, so how can we have a colony founded by Corinthians?

We use the faction that most closely resembles it.

We can add to them campaign units. (available only in the atlas editor).

That happens in all RTS: special campaign units.

https://empireearth.fandom.com/wiki/Scenario_editor-only_units

 

[Vantha]

11 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Sooo... The campaign will include a tutorial? Replace the tutorial?

In my mind "tutorial" and "campaign" are different things; of course it could be combined. But I think it would significantly lower the replayability of a campaign if it included a lengthy "pick some berries, collect some sticks" foreplay. Maybe if the tutorial were a skippable prequel?

The point is, it's not possible to teach players all basic aspects of gameplay in a single match. That's why we want to spread the content across an entire, dedicated campaign (so, sadly nothing for experienced players). A good tutorial campaign like this would render the current tutorial match rather pointless.

 

10 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

We use the faction that most closely resembles it.

Possible, but suboptimal in my opinion. There are so many possibilities, I'm sure we can find one that only (or mainly) includes "our" civilizations.

 

 

11 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

The initial campaign is Greek, the  Greco-Persian Wars.

Is this meant as an idea for this tutorial campaign? Or for future campaigns in general?

[ShadowOfHassen]

10 minutes ago, Vantha said:

Is this meant as an idea for this tutorial campaign? Or for future campaigns in general?

I think he's saying that way, waaaaay back those were the planned campaigns. We can do whatever we want now.

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 hours ago, Vantha said:

Possible, but suboptimal in my opinion. There are so many possibilities, I'm sure we can find one that only (or mainly) includes "our" civilizations.

We can also make a sub version, that is, a modified version for the campaign.

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 hours ago, Vantha said:

Is this meant as an idea for this tutorial campaign? Or for future campaigns in general?

After the tutorial..

I must make a conceptual map so that you understand me better.

Edited October 28 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

39 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

After the tutorial..

I must make a conceptual map so that you understand me better.

For now it would be like this.

[Genava55]

I still think that Massalia is a better candidate if you want to go in the direction of a colony campaign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massalia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_myth_of_Marseille

Massalia later founded other colonies, notably Agathe, Antipolis and Nikaia.

 

The other solution would be Hasdrubal the Fair, he was the predecessor of Hannibal and he founded Cartagena.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasdrubal_the_Fair

https://punicwars.org/people/hasdrubal-the-fair

[Lion.Kanzen]

Massalia (Greek: Μασσαλία, romanized: Massalía; Latin: Massilia) was an ancient Greek colony (apoikia) on the Mediterranean coast, east of the Rhône. Settled by the Ionians from Phocaea in 600 BC, this apoikia grew up rapidly, and its population set up many outposts for trading in modern-day Spain, Corsica and Liguria. Massalia persisted as an independent colony until the Roman campaign in Gaul in the 1st Century BC.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Just now, Lion.Kanzen said:

Massalia (Greek: Μασσαλία, romanized: Massalía; Latin: Massilia) was an ancient Greek colony (apoikia) on the Mediterranean coast, east of the Rhône. Settled by the Ionians from Phocaea in 600 BC, this apoikia grew up rapidly, and its population set up many outposts for trading in modern-day Spain, Corsica and Liguria. Massalia persisted as an independent colony until the Roman campaign in Gaul in the 1st Century BC.

It sounds promising I like that they are Ionians.

In some way it would later be connected with the Ionian revolt.

[Lion.Kanzen]

15 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

It sounds promising I like that they are Ionians.

In some way it would later be connected with the Ionian revolt.

Everything is connected, I told you guys.

 

According to Herodotus: the Phocaeans were the first Greeks to make long sea-voyages, having discovered the coasts of the Adriatic, Tyrrhenia and Spain. Herodotus relates that they so impressed Arganthonios, king of Tartessus in Spain, that he invited them to settle there, and, when they declined, gave them a great sum of money to build a wall around their city.[7]

 

Their sea travel was extensive. To the south they probably conducted trade with the Greek colony of Naucratis in Egypt, which was the colony of their fellow Ionian city Miletus. To the north, they probably helped settle Amisos (Samsun) on the Black Sea, and Lampsacus at the north end of the Hellespont (now the Dardanelles). However Phocaea's major colonies were to the west. These included Alalia in Corsica, Emporiae and Rhoda in Spain, and especially Massalia (Marseille) in France.

Phocaea remained independent until the reign of the Lydian king Croesus (circa 560–545 BC), when they, along with the rest of mainland Ionia, first, fell under Lydian control[8] and then, along with Lydia (who had allied itself with Sparta) were conquered by Cyrus the Great of Persia in 546 BC, in one of the opening skirmishes of the great Greco-Persian conflict.

 

Rather than submit to Persian rule, the Phocaeans abandoned their city. Some may have fled to Chios, others to their colonies on Corsica and elsewhere in the Mediterranean, with some eventually returning to Phocaea. Many however became the founders of Elea, around 540 BC

[Grautvornix]

While I do like historical accuracy and reference, it looks to me as if it is not so easy to find that one suitable scenario for a beginner's tutorial.

What if we created

- either a phantasy scenario that tells the story of establishing a "yet unknown" greek colony somewhere in Anatolia or a small Aegean island. 

- or a "made-up" one with a great and well-known reference that does not need much explanation of the historical background. (e.g. life in a Germanic village, that, after a few lessons, culminates into the Limes map/or the opposite, establish a Roman colony in Germania and then finally build a Limes.

 

Would it make sense to have the same tutorial with different scenarios the player can select from? This would certainly mostly make sense for the phantasy scenario option. Just the player can use his favourite civ and then play a tuorial.

We could use few different civs each with a specific biome but the same scripting.

 

[Vantha]

Massalia would be cool, but it has the same issues as Cyrene, Syracuse, and Tarentum: We don't have the involved civilizations in the game.

I know, there is the option of creating entirely new units and buildings just for the campaign. But, firstly, I don't think that would be worth the effort. And, secondly, the tutorial should not only introduce the players to the gameplay, but also the content the game offers. Wouldn't you find it odd if you played through the whole campaign as the "Phocaeans" only to find out afterwards that they're not not even a playable civilization in the rest of the game?

[ShadowOfHassen]

26 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

While I do like historical accuracy and reference, it looks to me as if it is not so easy to find that one suitable scenario for a beginner's tutorial.

I think we can use one. My idea still works, and some people have suggested other colonies that would work. We just need to settle on one and start scripting/ researching/designing.

 

[Vantha]

26 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

While I do like historical accuracy and reference, it looks to me as if it is not so easy to find that one suitable scenario for a beginner's tutorial.

What if we created

- either a phantasy scenario that tells the story of establishing a "yet unknown" greek colony somewhere in Anatolia or a small Aegean island. 

- or a "made-up" one with a great and well-known reference that does not need much explanation of the historical background. (e.g. life in a Germanic village, that, after a few lessons, culminates into the Limes map/or the opposite, establish a Roman colony in Germania and then finally build a Limes.

 

Would it make sense to have the same tutorial with different scenarios the player can select from? This would certainly mostly make sense for the phantasy scenario option. Just the player can use his favourite civ and then play a tuorial.

We could use few different civs each with a specific biome but the same scripting.

Yeah, in the worst case we could resort to something like that. But I really hope we find some suitable history instead.

[Vantha]

New idea: What about colonies established by Alexander the Great? They were founded in the correct time frame. Plus, we have the Macedonians as a civ, and several they fought against.

Of course, Alexandria (in Egypt) would be the obvious pick, but there are some other interesting ones as well.

[ShadowOfHassen]

1 minute ago, Vantha said:

New idea: What about colonies established by Alexander the Great? They were founded in the correct time frame. Plus, we have the Macedonians as a civ, and several they fought against.

Of course, Alexandria (in Egypt) would be the obvious pick, but there are some other interesting ones as well.

Could work. Though, I don't think a colony from Alexander the grate would have any problem establishing itself. Alexander the Great had the manpower to get behind it.

I don't want it to seem like I'm shooting ideas down or anything, just trying to point out (in my opinion) valid criticism.