Norse_Harold Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 (edited) I'm taking a break from moderation for a while. Dunedan is about to apply some policy decisions for the lobby that I consider poorly planned. Examples of policy that he has proposed are muting of users for, in my opinion, excessive durations of more than 24 hours, and perma-banning users where temporary banning would be more appropriate and more effective. I have tried discussing this with him many times, and he has refused to acknowledge key facts, such as the history of attempting to enforce bans in the lobby, and instead insists on ending debate and applying arbitrary policy decisions. These proposed policy decisions would in my opinion cause a setback in progress enforcing the rules. I feel like the manual monitoring of lobby chat that I have done has been taken for granted by Dunedan. I don't want that done in my name. I've been out in front appearing to be in control of the lobby, the only one with an @ symbol next to my name. I've been the only one mentioned in the message of the day greeting. Yet I'm not actually in control. So I'll take a break from moderation and let Dunedan take responsibility and control instead of just control. I've been doing the heavy lifting and have saddled the emotional burden of the lobby without getting the credit. I have been helping new users with troubleshooting installing and networking 0ad. I have been stepping in to stop people from fighting with each other. I have been basically the only one monitoring chat manually for the past year and issuing mutes as appropriate. I have been hosting games with rules regularly to create a space for people who want to get along and treat each other with respect. The Outcast affiliation still doesn't work, even after I completed testing of the update that would fix it, and Dunedan said that no further testing was necessary. This means that it is not being fixed for political reasons, not technical reasons. Unless Outcast affiliation works then I do not have the ability to ban lobby users. In my opinion, I have been demoted. What kind of Administrator doesn't have the ability to ban a user? Dunedan at one point said that if there is a complaint about his "authority" then he is the only one who can be consulted about it, that no one else can be consulted. What ethical organization has a policy where there is no transparency or oversight for an administrator? Fortunately, I did not let this deter me from getting sunlight on the situation. I shared chat logs with Stan after obtaining reluctant permission to do so from Dunedan. Unfortunately, after I talked to "upper management" of Wildfire Games by sharing examples with Stan and Itms of what I consider bad behavior by Dunedan, it was met with inaction. Dunedan's choices have been effectively rubber stamped by Stan and Itms. I will take a break until better decisions are made. Realize that without people helping new users install the game and get it working, there will probably be a decrease in player count over the long term. I don't like this fact, but it is the reality of things. In the meantime I will use the name Skyforger_Harold for off-duty lobby purposes. Please direct all lobby moderation and administration requests to Dunedan for the time being. Edited October 6 by Norse_Harold 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norse_Harold Posted October 6 Author Report Share Posted October 6 (edited) I am taking a temporary break from lobby moderation. I will use the name Skyforger_Harold for off-duty lobby purposes. Yes, it is an officially authorized duplicate lobby account. Please direct questions and requests regarding the lobby to Dunedan for the time being. What I have written about why I am taking a break is hidden by Dunedan for a reason, which I dispute. Okay, now the post is unhidden. Edited October 6 by Norse_Harold 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurken Khan Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 I can't really say much about moderation, the people, the processes, the policies. But it seems obvious to me that policies shouldn't be decided by a single person. And it also seems obvious to me that the single address for a complaint about a person mustn't be that person themself. Regarding leadership and inaction: maybe it's time that the people who can decide something decide something. It's been over a year now that @Stan` stepped down as project lead? As far as I'm aware there hasn't been a word since regarding leadership or the general structure of the project. Let's hope we can sort out this situation and the way forward amicably. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atrik Posted October 6 Report Share Posted October 6 2 hours ago, Norse_Harold said: about to apply some policy decisions for the lobby that I consider poorly planned. Examples of policy that he has proposed are muting of users for, in my opinion, excessive durations of more than 24 hours, and perma-banning users where temporary banning would be more appropriate and more effective. I have tried discussing this with him many times, and he has refused to acknowledge key facts, such as the history of attempting to enforce bans in the lobby, and instead insists on ending debate and applying arbitrary policy decisions. Weird but reassuring to read you explain that. Thanks @Norse_Harold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedan Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 @Norse_Harold: Thank you very much for your contributions to 0 A.D. and its community. I, and I'm sure all other members of Wildfire Games as well, are very grateful for your contributions so far and hope you'll come back after your break to continue to contribute. As @Norse_Harold already mentioned, we'll try out some new approaches to moderation going forward with the goal to make the community an even safer and more welcoming place. If you encounter inappropriate behavior by other community members, which violates the Terms of Use, please let me know. We're also looking for additional volunteers, who'd be willing to help out with moderation. If you're interested in contributing to that, please send me a private message. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vantha Posted October 7 Report Share Posted October 7 I don't have insights into this dispute, so I really don't want to judge anyone or anything here and I obviously can't provide a solution. @Norse_Harold I know that it has already been said, but I believe your work is very valuable and underappreciated. I would likely have never gotten into programming to contribute to this project if it wasn't for you - that's not an overstatement. 0 A.D. needs more people like you. Thank you. Let's all not loose sight of the essential. 0 A.D. is a great project, a great game, and deserves a great community. And I mean that without ambiguity. I genuinely hope this gets sorted out. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfHassen Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 (edited) On 06/10/2024 at 5:37 PM, Gurken Khan said: I can't really say much about moderation, the people, the processes, the policies. But it seems obvious to me that policies shouldn't be decided by a single person. And it also seems obvious to me that the single address for a complaint about a person mustn't be that person themself. Regarding leadership and inaction: maybe it's time that the people who can decide something decide something. It's been over a year now that @Stan` stepped down as project lead? As far as I'm aware there hasn't been a word since regarding leadership or the general structure of the project. Let's hope we can sort out this situation and the way forward amicably. He has a point. I understand there are different ways to manage open source. If we're going to do a benevolent dictatorship, that's OK, or even benevolent Illuminati. But I would kind of like to know what's going on. Stan supposedly stepped down a year ago, yet in the meantime we've decided to move to Gittea. The migration was a good idea and love it, but who made the decision? What's going on? If what Norse_Harold says is true, why does a single dev get to make a decision by himself? And maybe he does have a shadowy Illuminati who gave him their blessing, but who are they? The only was open source projects work is through transparency and community. I think it's very unfair to expect contributors to help row the ship (0 A.D.) if they don't know who's steering the thing. I don't have any idea what's going on with moderation, though I do applaud you, @Norse_Harold, for what you've done. One of the hardest things I can imagine doing is take something you thought fun (0 A.D.) and turn it into a job (moderating). Thank you for your work. Edited October 8 by ShadowOfHassen 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopard Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 On 07/10/2024 at 3:29 PM, Dunedan said: We're also looking for additional volunteers, who'd be willing to help out with moderation. If you're interested in contributing to that, please send me a private message. please don't let Geriatrix or his fake accounts to moderate, I am not able to play multiplayer games because of that person bans me and spread fake news about me to other people, so if you give him power he will ban me from lobby I would like to Volunteer as a moderator. @Norse_Harold did help me a lot when I got into issues with other accounts(I don't consider them as Humans, they are bots made to insult people). I think 0AD authority don't care much about anyone, even people trying to help, I think that is the number one reason for low number of developers and high number of zombie bots who want to eat your brains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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