[Units] Roles and New paradigm+A28

[Lion.Kanzen]

39 minutes ago, Outis said:

Peltasts can be upgraded with a tech like Peltast Tradition the way hoplites are differentiated from other spearmen via Hoplite Tradition. 

Here we have a problem with the Pelstasts unit that becomes a hybrid unit (Hoplite) as the evolution of the war progresses.

In other words, the blow is high and evolves into a tyrophoroi.

It is almost the same evolution that we have with the antisignanus and Auxiliary infantry.

As I understand it, lighter infantry was used to cover the flanks of the heavy infantry to cover the cavalry gaps as the troops moved or left gaps.

[Lion.Kanzen]

By the way I'm going to need help with that from the game historians.

@Genava55 @Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

@wowgetoffyourcellphone 

I need help with peltasts.

Edited March 9 by Lion.Kanzen

[Vantha]

Essentially, peltasts are a mixture of ranged and melee. They carry a light shield and light armor, a sword and javelins. This makes them fast enough to evade melee charges as well superior to traditional ranged units like javelineers.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I would be fine with giving skirms some armor as a way of differentiating them from other ranged units. Ranged units don't have the same diversity that melee units have.

However, I strongly disagree with giving units dual attacks en masse. All this will do is make the gameplay confusing. The core units should remain very simple, so I would only be ok with 1 or 2 unique units with dual attack abilities. Ie only legionaries can do the pilum throw, but not pre-reform swordsmen.

[Outis]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Here we have a problem with the Pelstasts unit that becomes a hybrid unit (Hoplite) as the evolution of the war progresses.

Please note the Thracian peltast is a true skirmisher with more but still very limited melee capability than regular skirmishers. The Iphicratian peltast is an outright melee unit, more like a ligher and more mobile hoplite. They share the name merely due to the type of shield they share, namely a pelta, which is smaller than an aspis that covered almost the whole body. As such, there is no evolution per se and in my opinion it is preferrable to handle the two separately.

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 minutes ago, Outis said:

Please note the Thracian peltast is a true skirmisher with more but still very limited melee capability than regular skirmishers. The Iphicratian peltast is an outright melee unit, more like a ligher and more mobile hoplite. They share the name merely due to the type of shield they share, namely a pelta, which is smaller than an aspis that covered almost the whole body. As such, there is no evolution per se and in my opinion it is preferrable to handle the two separately.

Maybe there is no evolution between those two but in the long run comparing it with the Macedonians and Successors, There is change, although perhaps in the Successors it is due to contact with the Roman troops.

[Genava55]

14 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I need help with peltasts.

Peltasts became a specialized force during the Peloponnesian wars, almost like professionals. Very often they were made of allies or mercenaries, therefore it should not be armed "citizens" for the game.

What are your questions? I'm willing to make the effort to respond if you make the effort to be concise. I'm not going to read dozens of messages going all over the place to try to understand what you mean.

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 hours ago, Genava55 said:

Peltasts became a specialized force during the Peloponnesian wars, almost like professionals. Very often they were made of allies or mercenaries, therefore it should not be armed "citizens" for the game.

What are your questions? I'm willing to make the effort to respond if you make the effort to be concise. I'm not going to read dozens of messages going all over the place to try to understand what you mean.

I don't expect you to read them.

[Obelix]

On 06/03/2024 at 11:32 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

@Obelix There was a patch that used chariots as combat platforms I think freagarach was working on it. 

I don't know if you remember something like that.

I'm sorry, but I fear I neither remember nor know why I have been mentioned. Maybe I find time to do a trac research.

Edited March 12 by Obelix

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 12/03/2024 at 12:30 PM, Obelix said:

I'm sorry, but I fear I neither remember nor know why I have been mentioned. Maybe I find time to do a trac research.

There is nothing related to the chariots?

I don't know if it had to do with elephants or rotating shots as they walked away.

But precisely because of the animation it could not be done until a solution was found.

[Lion.Kanzen]

9 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

There is nothing related to the chariots?

I don't know if it had to do with elephants or rotating shots as they walked away.

But precisely because of the animation it could not be done until a solution was found.

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1958?vs=on&id=16857

I found it sometimes my memory does not describe things exactly, but very different the idea was not.

Sub units is called the feature.

@Obelix

Edited March 14 by Lion.Kanzen