Atrik

A lot of players do this trick : Garrison rams in a building (fort most likely but possible to make it from workshop) Ungarrison them on approaching siege, then just after they land a hit, garrison them to safety. It's annoying because you have no way to react fast enough to kill the trickster ram. You can still : Surround your own rams with enough soldiers so that the opponent rams won't be able to unload too close to them. Surround your own rams with melee on stand-ground stance (need less then for 1 but also less safe for you own rams, you might be able to kill enemy rams though). Give up on ramming the fort and find an alternative (catapults, capture the fort, ignore the fort..). The odds that your opponent use anything else then the default garrison hotkey to do this are extremely low.

Consider that a lot of players already expressed they wish that cavs in general get nerfed. Some ideas where to decrease speed as we're talking above but also make cs cav 2 pop and 3 for champs... Theses ideas would nerf cavs much more then making their counter actually works. I also agree with players saying that cavs should ideally be an auxiliary force of an army and rarely it's main force. So even if you invest more to make cavs, you aren't guaranteed to be able to take out a similarly sized inf army. Cavs can already choose what fights to take or not which is their core strength in the first place, and alone could justify a greater price. Beside the fact cavs can hardly be caught by inf spears cav have a lot of extra hp: Cs melees cavs have x1.5 (1.6 with Horse breading) of melee inf Cs ranged cavs have x2 (x2.2 with Horse breading) of ranged inf These hp make them tougher to projectiles, but also spears x2.5 counter was making them barley catch up with the extra hp... From here I'll be in favor of making melee cavs roles more defined. Spear cav could get their damage against other cav increased, and sword cav could benefit from more pierce armor for them to be more effective when trying to kill ranged units or raid enemy base.

It's a good think if CS cav aren't always better then inf. This counter effect is supposed to be a mitigation of cav strength instead of nerfing their speed or any stats. The way formation works make indeed hard to outmaneuver infantry back-lines with melee cavs, but they still have use cases too (mostly rushing and raiding, but forcing enemy to call formations multiple times make melee cav worth it). I like that cav remain strong and mobile, but have very hard time if they fight polearm inf.

Looks very alike the a27 bug/lag that should be fixed with a27.1.

Not specific to a27.1. Not really a bug neither. A variant of the marine seems to have been created in order to make it unlocked by default in PII in the gymnasium. https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/commit/ba635f2790762fbf74541013a6247619519c0ebc

https://mod.io/g/0ad/m/10ad You can conveniently get this from mod downloader.

Ranged cavalry are already within that range (x1.3-x1.6 of inf equivalent) melee cavalry have more and I feel it is smart gameplay-wise as melee cav intuitively can be used to: engage backlines be able to counter ranged cavs raid with comparable effectiveness as skirmisher cavs. All 3 scenarios require melee cavalry to have this additional speed.

As you can see from this thread, a consensus will never happen as for the solutions @real_tabasco_sauce makes the all the balancing PRs that get approved by the team atm. So rly it's almost about convincing him. With current production stats (cost, prod time..) more durable units actually makes the game feel more spamy. This because there are much more situation where both sides can sustain sending troops on the front-line, replacing dying units by new one for a long while. Since melee re-balance, this happens more rarely, as battles tend to play out slightly faster. I'll maintain that it did have a positive impact on the gameplay, also because it put less importance on sniping making other things matter more.

Because after melee re-balance, melees were killing other melees faster. For spear inf vs cav, this is even more visible because of this damage multiplier. But note : The melee re-balance didn't change relative strengths* of inf spears vs cavs, it just made fights happens faster So the following reduction of inf counter was a net nerf, which tipped off the balance in favor of melee cav * However in army with mixed compositions, inf spears became more impactful as they were before since the % of dps dealt by them was increased. Now that we identified the above, we can discuss if units dying faster is desirable, and if not, how to mitigate it without inadvertently breaking unit balance. About that my take on this is that it's not bad to have faster paced slaughters when a player miss-micro cavalry, as cavalry are already pretty hard to catch: It seems preferable to keep cavalry stats and mobility high but not too fail safe Then the opposite : make cavalry more normalized with infantry (slower movement, lower stats...)

Basically I think what would be nice is to have cavs used for their mobility, and not a unit that will always be the best suited in all situations as main core troop. To keep melee cav skirmishing still possible they need to have mobility, but being less effective then infantry to fight as front-lines. Restoring x2 spear cav vs cav would also make them a good choice when needing to counter ranged cavs. Strong counters is a easy way to make units more balanced overall because one player can... counter... any unit "abused" by it's opponent.

It's x3 from existing x2.5. x3 inf polearms vs cav and x2 spear cav vs cavs were the a26 values and cavs, especially champ cavs, where still op, just not as much as now.

Finely a hero that will nerf champ cavs?

There is still at least 2 different bug with formations that I haven't been able to have clear way to reproduce yet too. 1. is units acquiring random targets when pressing Halt in formation, ex: a building even if clearly there are units nearby, or attack units far away. (happens when there are a lot of entity around so i guess it's because of some optimization stuff) 2. units sometimes freeze/dance salsa endlessly in formation. Else wise, formation are already very very useful without bonus already, for unit placement, and to fight efficiently. I know some will consider bug too but it's actually nice that units can cluster up while in formation.

Since that happened this WE I looked into it, and got a grasp of the problem. The prices are currently driven by the number of transactions and not the volumes they generate. So one can drive the price of a resource then benefit from large transactions, therefor overall generating resources. Currently the formula multiply some constants to sold amount (which is equivalent to number of transactions, as sold amounts are fix), if you change it to bought amount, large transaction affect the price more, and generating resources from this 'Pump and Dump' no longer works => The only way to have barter efficiency over 100% will now be if ANOTHER player oversold a resource, and the amount you can generate is now proportional to the amount he lost. Which is very likely the behavior intended in the first place.

There is a player who does this from min 15 onward (systematically), and it's not even me @TrashyOtherperson.

Thanks , but it's a sketch/invitation to make a complete map of all unit relationship. As said, primarily to give some kind of framework to unit balancing but it could also be useful for curious people learning the game.

The consequences of increasing range from 4 to 7m for champ cav are multiples, one is that they do reduce heavily loses when engaging them in a frontline. That does explain why even if you make counter units, you won't necessarily benefit from their already mediocre counter dps. I felt like it was in important consideration when thinking about counters.

There are no counters to Sele/Pers champion cavalry spears (but you having more champ spear cav then your opponent). Even if you had spartiate or any champion infantry polearms. They have extra range (7m) so if your enemy fight with them in formation with some melee infantry, now the champs fight behind the infantry (who have 4m range), therefor your champ spears aren't counters. Tested it against borg in tg recently even him can't do anything.

I like other things in historical, but the slower cav speed there did make me realize that it is a exciting part of playing cavalry. Trying to get the most out of the mobility seems pretty normal. I'm not sure it will be well received by most players to reduce cav speed. Making counter damage actually punishing is probably all that's needed, and what will make the game more interesting. You shouldn't be able just rely on having a big number of champ cavs and bump into any army. As they have mobility and strength, they need a weakness, and that weakness should be being mediocre at holding a front-line against inf spears. Suggestion : restore old counter multiplier values (x3 inf spear vs cav and x2 spear cav vs cav).

I would prefer forts not to have a too a central role in 0ad. I actually like having the choice of not building any to go aggressive vs building it if I plan to defend. Putting units trainable in the forts reinforce the need to just build it whatever, and therefor you play a bit more every game with the same build. Regarding balance, I think a framework for balancing should be worked on. It would be interesting to make relation graphs to have clear views on what are each unit role. Below some example with some existing relationship between units in 0AD (A27 stats, they rounded but they are actually real). Power is dps * hp (after converting armor to hp equivalent, so it does take into account armor, thoughts if hack and pierce armor value are different, a decent mitigation is to use the average of the two), so for jav above, it doesn't account for the accuracy gains.

From https://mod.io/g/0ad/m/shiny, a few small changes were required to make this mod work on released a27. I've ported the endgame screens, added some parts to ModernGUI. Would be too bad to let this artwork vanish in archives. All credits to @maroder obviously.

From your video, we can see that that javs are wasting time bumping into each others, while slingers continuously attack. If you make the same test with both groups locked in formation, the outcome should be favorable to javs (because formation allow units the almost ignore hitboxs of other units in their formation, therefor no more bumping).

There is a warning iirc that suggest to new players to start with Petra "sandbox" before "very easy".

Someone needs to make a PR. Meanwhile: standalone mod to get this tooltip : garrisonedInfoTooltip.zip Already in Moderngui too.