Atrik

Yes, almost. But the games in which champion cavalry feels the most unfair is when you were active and team-working from early on in the game, that you took out 2 players, but one single enemy was left unchecked, made champ cavs, and now vaporize all your teams armies, even if they are regrouped. Champions cavalry are: Cheap (VERY resource efficient) Strong (EXTREMELY population efficient) Fast (mobility is good both in fights AND on map control) Counter everything (hack dps for melees) Don't have serious counter (Spears champs have x2.5 dps, BUT less base dps, x0.6 hp x0.5 movement speed, most civ require special building.) The accumulation of perks, and lack of any counters is what makes them feel so unbalanced. That being said, I don't think we should over-nerf them. Just give them 1 real weakness as should strong units have, and/or make them a little less cheap.

It's not the same. If your border ally is harassed by camels, you can counter it by your own cav (you need less then camels) and having the speed tech makes a big difference. It's unlike another buff of hp/damage.

@Noob Dude check this if haven't already. I tested with a few players, and it feels rly like great feature that makes micro interesting.

It's the only tech that really feels like usable to 'counter' an enemy p1 start such as camels, but cav spam in general. It allow having the upper hand in p1 cav fights. I wish there were a couple more techs like this actually.

To me it's obvious that it is better to allow players to have easier control over units behavior rather then hardcoding some mitigation logic. The latter might even lead to un-intuitive pathing which the game already have a good deal of.

Kill counter is back as an option now (version 1.27.20+). Added a new page "Leaderboard" that display top 10 entities with the most kills. @Emacz, I'v replaced the toggle gui button that now open this page now instead (the 'Score' button near minimap), It might solve the bug where the gui toggles off. I'm not able to reproduce this bug so I still don't know if you miss-click the button or if something else triggers it. In any cases that might solve it (or not). You can still toggle the gui with Alt+Shift+F. This page also make use of @nani's animation framwork, so if you have autociv, you get cool animations. Thanks @nani!

For me, I don't believe that there shouldn't be some "reflex-oriented gameplay" or that there shouldn't be any mechanical skill. But inefficient game features for me are just frustrating. I get that for some it's somehow providing dopamine, but I just dislike when not being able to translate my will into actions. There are amazing features in 0AD, like free draw formations and a couple great hotkeys like call to arm, queue action etc... Some feel/felt broken to me. One example is sniping, where you need to make hundreds of clicks just to avoid an army from targeting a hero (see Box Targeting thread) when a proper feature could make it feel sooo much better with a 5 line of code patch. In vanilla UI, you also have no way of knowing if, or which buildings are idle, I don't find this fun as maintaining production in buildings is pretty basic. Add to this a treacherous feature like auto-queue that is totally unreliable and you'll have me find it hard to enjoy a game. If the game doesn't want to introduce these features because some people find these limitations enjoyable, I'm glad that I can still get them in a mod.

I don't like the idea of impairing normal user experience of the forum/starting arm race against bots but maybe make a user's first post on forum to be approved by a moderator?

The majority of comments here are coming from SP players afaik giving opinion on what MP should be. It is... puzzling. They also post elsewhere that MP community have too much influence on game development (??!!). So this is definitely a troll topic that cannot be taken even the slightest seriously. As for fun, MP players also play for fun. There will never be 'pros' players on a free game, they are just designated this way when they are regular players.

Each biome have different resource availability/scarceness. It definitively have an impact on game-play. It also has an impact of civilizations balance.

Thanks to all contributors who figured and made this patch! Langbart ultra op. https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/issues/7714 Tested over couple of games it definitely feel like reverting the 'a27 lags'. Similar feedback from @0 calories. No more climax 4-12 fps lags or camera/gui unresponsiveness . Sharing the patch for those who'd like to try it. And get reasonable fps again... To apply on linux, (if you built the game) put the patch in your game folder lagpatch.patch Apply the patch: patch -p1 < lagpatch.patch Recompile: cd build/workspaces/gcc make -j3

Yes On low wood maps, it's even pretty common to gather a female battalion to support an attack.

They can be used as key defenders in a lot of situations. Also thanks to cheaper loom from @real_tabasco_sauce. @Stockfish even went as far as to attempt offensives with Spartans females

There are a lot of frustrations linked to production that can be addressed. Here are 3 features, from most basic to most advanced that can improve gaming experience. Fix 'bugs'. Suggested by @guerringuerrin. Also implemented similar feature after his idea in Moderngui. Help visualize idle buildings. (Moderngui) Centralize production management. (Moderngui's 'ecopanels') I'm pretty happy to be able to say that thanks to Moderngui the frustrations that i also used to experience from production management are past history for me. Just commenting ideas and personal experience/preferences.

Weird, maybe missing a redirect when unlogged. @Stan`

DoctorOrgans is the best here.

https://replay-pallas.wildfiregames.ovh/Replays Nice stats here with graphics.

@MarcusAureliu#s the hotkey used is the very basic : session.attack It's F by default since a27, for "Force Attack". It's likely you'll want to use this when (alt or shift) sniping to avoid units to start gathering if you miss-click (in a forest for example). However it's not as good as it used to be with a26 "Ctrl" for "Attack" since now this isn't going to make an "attack move" in case you miss-click, so units will walk into suicide instead......... It would be interesting to know if someone was able to restore "Ctrl + Alt" sniping behavior from a26, which was: attack target if possible, else attack move. @roscany A gui button is likely to be added if this is implemented. But players that don't use mouse nor keyboard are kind of an exception.... Also as previously stated, it's not going to impact you that much relative to now. The current method of sniping will still be optimal in most cases. This would be like an alternative for less spamy clicks, but less efficient, and most use cases will be to avoid baiting and for pathing in general.

If this feature do provides an alternative to alt of shift spam clicks for targeting ranged units, it is not the only problem it solves. Alt and especially shift clicking with small selection (8 units for ex) would likely still be often more optimized. This, instead provides a solution to frustrating scenario where you need to make hundreds of clicks just to avoid catastrophic outcomes: Hero dance, is often asymmetrical micro for the player doing it, because defender needs to make tones of clicks very very fast just to avoid 0 damage dealing of your entire army. With box targeting, you can react to it with a single command instead (you might need to repeat it every few secs, but it's not as spammy). Overkills, when foes are placed in a way where your entire army will shoot at a single unit, there was no way to prevent it but making a full sniping cycle. With box targeting you can avoid this, just by hovering units you intended to shoot at, and not the single most closest enemy. Pathing, a lot of times, using attack move leads to weird army behavior where half of your units just move away the intended direction to chase a meaningless unit, like a cav, a female, a unit that just spawned out of a barrack in the back of the enemy base you are attacking.... Box Targeting allow you to define where do units need to go and fight instead. Basically all cases where you feel like your units get side-tracked for arbitrary reasons, you have a feature to avoid these situation. @ffm2 @roscany, I don't think this feature is adding complexity, to the contrary: It's a single command that solve multiple micro issues that previously required to learn to detect them, a lot of tricks to mitigate them, or responses when they occur. It also make perfect sens to use the existing "Force attack" hotkey, so it's not even adding a new one. This input is begging to be added, it's 5 line of codes in input.js (a few more for visual and audio effects)

I added the sounds @guerringuerrin, but for the cursor maybe @real_tabasco_sauce can help because when I try it, it impact unrelated stuff... It feels very good to handle. To test it : BoxTargeting.zip It will allow "Force Attack" Hotkey (F by default) + Selection Box to make your selection attack units hovered! I've reset the poll and assigned old votes to "no". Hoping to help this topic mature with this demo.

Thanks for posting this @Ginnungagap, means a LOT to me, you've been testing it since the nub poc, and your suggestions helped so much to bring it where it is now.

I was thinking of something that isn't even optimized, as user can already use the box selection tool to define which and approx how much units would be targeted. So basically making smaller selections if you want to really get the most out of it. I think this would make sens because in a battle, you might also gain value by choosing exactly where your ranged aim at (for example you want to weaken one of the flank for combo a cavalry charge, or because it is the closest to a fort that the enemy might retreat too at some point etc...). As for hero dancing, you would be 'immune' if you already issued a CHEAT and units in the box are still alive, or you could make a quick response with a fresh one. So I do think it mitigate it heavily. I guess AIMBOT would be feasible but indeed, more complicated, and too similar use case as patrol. Also if the main concern is that CHEAT doesn't mitigate hero dancing or any baiting, I think this isn't true. The main goal of CHEAT is to be able to make a single order to respond to baiting instead of being forced to make 300 alt clicks because someone is hero dancing.

I'm just setting low expectations on how this thread could end up because of the previous one, indeed @Ginnungagap, @guerringuerrin. Ideally this thread will instead answer game-play questions. There is also the question that I might be able to make the js do this, but if such a feature would ever be considered to add to vanilla, then a dedicated engine function might have to be developed, for a single command to be made instead of the js issuing 1 command per unit in selection.

After a quick test, I think it wouldn't be hard to create a CHEAT (Controllable Hover Entities Area Targeting) selection box targeting feature. The goal here would be to be able to use box selection while holding a hotkey to order selection to target specified enemy units. This would look like this: Select your army Hold down targeting hotkey Box select hover enemy units Then your selected units would be assigned to target all units found in the box selection. This would nicely mitigate aggressive pathing where for example : Half of your army get baited into splitting instead of attacking enemy army because a single unit happens to be behind your army Your entire army projectiles are thrown to a single enemy (overkill or hero dancing) Allow to assign ranged units to fire at back-line units, easier then with ALT hotkey Overall making micro-management funnier then having to make 300 click to avoid hero dance, yet making hero dancing still very good, but just easier to counter micro it. Micromanagement will obviously still be intensive, just you remove the part of spam clicking ALT, and replace it with a better fitted feature for targeting and spreading fire. I'd like to give one more illustration of how micro-management would look like with this. When playing xbows units, if you are retreating, but at some point, turn back to fire a volley, all units will shoot at the single most closest enemy. You CANNOT be fast enough with ALT clicks to spread shots, resulting in massive overkill. With this box targeting, you could make the volley spread on more enemies units following your units. In my opinion that this would be far greater approach to have a user-controllable feature then having solutions like : randomized targeting by @real_tabasco_sauce Or autonomous re-targeting by @real_tabasco_sauce.