BeTe

Spectacular game! (This is also open source game as well)...

OpenRA.net , an another open source game...

Just found this message in ORA Discord. It seems some people really like big fights (we discussed it here):

No, just name it Feature! (And fix 0ad performance/lag , btw )

1) I heard from few sources that campaign and casual players are very big majority in RTS games, so i guess investing into campaings and singleplayer is good strat. 2) Lag is big issue of 0AD - i'd set it as super high priority although I know it's very hard. Work done so far is just awesome, 0AD is cool game, but dude that lag is really ruining everything.

Awesome 1h 30min game, SaidRz (Rome) vs cronelius (Gauls):

Nice game, not too laggy + some nice macro&micro... worth watching imho...

1) Did you or someone else had chance to try this pop cap? Or did you guys discussed this? 2) Also (question for all) where we are at considering points from Valihrant , did community-mod fixed anything and how much?

I just did quick research (googleing "wildfiregames.com" for "citizen solider" term) trying to understand why we have concept of CS. Just as FYI, I don't suggest anything. more relevant: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/40114-balancing-citizen-soldiers-cs-long-shot/ https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/39378-gameplay-issue-booming-turtling/ a bit less relevant (imho): https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/20617-why-the-citizen-soldier-concept-is-wrong/ https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/22017-trying-to-trace-back-the-citizen-soldier/

@guerringuerrin Idk if that was rhetoric question, but I do think number of units significantly decide dynamics. This is case for Zerg in SC 1... iirc, they would be OP if you could select all of them at once... Idk if how many people complain about that. Btw, about meta: SC 1 meta is still evolving. For example Flash went to army and was away 1-2 years idk. Meanwhile TvP changed and switched to +1 5 Factory instead of fast 3rd. Reason is b/c pro gamers figured out how to use Shuttle+Reaver more efficently and punish greedy Terrans. Flash tried to play old meta, but if I noticed propely he is switching to new one. I like SC1 and I'd like to see more games like that, but problem is that I am not sure that modern players respect that qualities enough so it's not most popular game (at least when we compare viewers on Twitch and other stats). So not everything must be applied to 0AD, but I think it's good to take some elements from that game, especially from AOE 2 which is super popular as I can see on Twitch, even more then AOE III and IV together. I just throw ideas. Maybe I should stop now, at least until I master 0AD?

Would highly appreciate. Shoot!

@chrstgtr I appreciate your reply. It's 100% valid perspective and is one of valid opinions. It doesn't mean it's correct or wrong and that alre's one is correct or wrong. It's just different opinion and that's normal in human societies. To give my perspective. This thread is started long ago and meanwhile I played like 2000 games of SC 1 which is very hard mechanically (old) + very competitive on Ladder. SC 1 as we know don't give a @#$% about fact that newbies find it hard to queue 1 by 1 unit from 5-10 different facilities and that you need to select them 1-by-1, unlike 0AD, SC2 or other RTS. You can't select more then 12 units as well. And many other things. And now, that's where philosophy comes into play. I do think SC 1 is awesome game and I personally wouldn't change it although I am new. I like it more then SC 2 in almost every aspect. In that sense regarding 0AD, I don't necessary think we need to adapt to newbies, but as Alre said, game is not made only for PROs.... Some people (not me) like to play it semi-casually and it must be taken into consideration. That's also what new RTSes goes towards and I personally think it's bad thing. But 0AD community needs to choose top level strat of what we want to have and stick to that (for some time at least). So 1, 2 and 3. arguments are correct but come out of not necessary correct premise, unless we want high competitive game. Which is not good or bad on it's own ofc. Nor it's only way to make game more competitive. "Make bigger crowd to make it harder".... not sure that's correct. IDK tho. 4. It's nice to hear. I did notice better performance in a26 which is nice. Idk what other solutions are in pipeline, but I guesstimate fewer units would be much easier approach and it works without too much involvement of developers (which is problem for open-source projects afaik). Especially if we all like to see fewer units on screen for whatever reasons. Also, recently I have less problems with first 3 points, especially since someone showed me Alt+right click to split units. But I still don't like of that mass of units, mostly for visual reasons but also for reason stated in point 1. (not always tho). I also don't like graphics and fact it's hard to distinguish my own units from opponents. That's my problem with all modern games, aoe 3,4, SC 2, WC3, etc. In that sense AOE 2 DE is perfect, it's more simple, less effects and it's obvious what unit belongs to who. New games are just overwhelmed... All that combined is hard for my eyes, I feel blind and tired after 1 single game. You can now argue it could be my lap-top or my body, which is also true to some extend, but it's same as discussion about topic from start of this message. Again, don't take this personally. I don't say i am right and don't want to force changes. I just want to give my perspective and to hear what others think. I mean title of this theread is with question not exclamation mark.... I like democratic approach. But yeah, I am new i need to adapt to game, not game to myself. Again thanks for feedback, sincerely appreciate that.

1) i forgot what I actually wrote, but "hard to identify" is visual not mechanical issue for me (at least now). It just looks ugly (and it's subjective ofc). 2) Yeah basically you are right, i just need to learn that's why i wrote "idk yet". Usually if I write something, it's not for purpose of teaching others but rather for learning purpose. (Dialectical approach?) Definitely I should make it clear, but essentially my goal is to encourage people to prove me wrong or explain some parts i am missing. I give my perspective and hope for different one. Anyways, you just reminded me to start this thread: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/120864-advanced-players-1v1-replays/ , so I'd really appreciate someone to teach me a bit.

Hey guys. I'd like to learn "meta" by seeing how PROs play 1v1s these days. I did watch almost all ValihrAnt's POVs, but i am also interested to 1) see others and 2) from Observer/replay perspective. So can someone post here, or send me in PM some replays that are (1)balanced in terms of player skills and (2)are 1v1s ? Thanks in advance.

Yeah that makes sense. Tho, I think I actually used CS units to gather resources (metal/wood) near battlefield/center of map between fights. If you need to quickly rebuild units from 10 Barracks after big loses and you're low on food, you want women to gather food and CS for wood/metal. Unless you are floating something, which is usually suboptimal, at least in other RTSes. Tho, I guess in most cases you start floating some resource before fight is started, so maybe this is not always case... What I talk about, I like ability to choose more economy/macro or more military buildings during game. According to that, if you chose military approach, you must 1) scout 2) if he goes eco, be more aggressive and make damage so you don't fall behind. Otherwise, if you go eco, you need to 1) scout opponent and see what he builds 2) properly react (if he is going military) you need defenses, walls, play defensively, etc. Maybe I am wrong and fixated to how other games works. But 0AD is weird to me (doesn't mean wrong/bad, idk yet)...

Related to talks about big vs small army fights... I just watched this and want to share here for "brainstorming" purpose. The guy (is he credible actually?!) compares AOE 2 and 3 and mentions fights and unit mechanics and why he thinks AOE2 is better or more popular: https://youtu.be/A_q_pMVLqY4?si=xgXWDEC_PKNVNq25&t=344

Fyi, I tried 2 games vs CPU to rush those Spartan champions - but I don't think it can be done on time. Maybe I didn't optimize Bo, idk. But with normal BO your Barracks are ready around 3:00 (or so) and you will have stronger eco + outproduce champions build, right? Btw, in general, I am curious why champions are so expensive in 0AD? I mean they are stronger but can't gather resources which is direct harming eco - according to this, shouldn't they be at least equally expensive? I am just curious why it's designed that way?

Just to share with the community (not my channel obviously):

Yeah, that's also good point. Someone mentioned before that he likes big fights... I just don't know how many current and/or potential (future) players prefer that over more focus on micro smaller groups and more smooth game. I guess that's question. I guess more people like traditional RTS with smaller fights, which is kinda proven. Well, we can agree (someone said that too) 0ad should not be copy of another game, but maybe there's another way to diversify.

That could be idea, but not sure what actually to implement. Food (or all resources) decay? More pop, slower production is? idk, I prefer idea of just slowing down production time of units. Then to avoid slowing down eco and making dead early game lasts even longer, we need to either 1) increase gathering speed 2) reducing costs of buildings. I tried that and problem i figured out so far is that A) towers are nerfed (b/c units that you garrison in them are more "expensive") and farming is buffed (b/c with more efficient gathering, you can basically put equivalent of 10 villagers to 1 farm).

No one even playing it? Don't you test it by playing against real players?

How's Delenda Est going? It looks cool to me... Btw, do you maybe have some replays of someone good playing it?

I don't understand people, why they don't work on that. (OK, ik about VUlcan API or whatever it is, and i guess that's nice try although I have no idea what that is...). Especially people from community-mod. Guys added so many (nice) updates, but idk if that's priority... Anyways, I tried and made some quick mod, there's also video: It needs to be tuned and tested, but in general it doesn't look as too bad try, for me. Eco goes faster (you can go to p2 in like 5-6 mins iirc), you have fewer units (=less lag, more pleasure to micro), etc. Idk why nobody reacted? I guess it's bad.

And it doesn't lag in teamgames when everybody maxed pop? Anyways, we need to slow down unit production 2x... AOE needs like, what, 20-25 mins to get to max pop?

Dude this lag fest. Shame... 0ad would be awesome game if that's fixed.