Outis

Agreed, there were cavalry formations which were combat efficient. What I want to emphasize is: most ancient armies did not operate cavalry alone to conclude engagements. They needed infantry, boots on the ground, or maybe sandals on the ground in some cases . I think the game can reflect that in such a way that most factions cannot pull it out with cavalry alone unless the enemy has a bad army composition or makes a tactical mistake.

Yes, if ranged infantry stray away from melee infantry, they are hunted by fast units. And this does not contradict the statement that they have a different role than melee infantry. I think the question to tackle here is: in most ancient armies, melee infantry was the main force, and ranged infantry and cavalry were supporting melee infantry or having specific roles. And then, there were some armies which relied on particular tactics involving large number of ranged units (Han) or cavalry (maybe Scythians some day? ). How to make sure all are viable strategies? I guess hard counter attack bonuses are necessary to implement this. But please please please, do not give huge multipliers in such a way that unit x rips unit y apart but barely scratches the armor of unit z. And please keep them realistic (spears hurt cavalry because they are longer than other melee weapons and can reach the rider) and/or historical (elephants were defeated by javelins in most accounts). What would really be great also is: 1) Have bonuses to formations. Scattered infantry are vulnerable to cavalry charges. Clustered formations are vulnerable to missiles. Hoplites were well protected from both melee and ranged attack because they locked shields together. Pike phalanx was only effective in formation. Roman Testudo formation was almost impervious missiles. 2) Have aura effect. Camels and elephants need stench aura which prevents or weakens cavalry charges. Elephants need fear aura which weakens enemy attack. Chariots need trample. I think most of these are present in DE.

There is one thing they do which melee units cannot do: you cannot commit all melee units to battle at the same time because melee units need to almost be next to units, their availability for fighting is restricted to the battle line, so they spend more time manuevering. Ranged units may be commited in much higher numbers simultaneously if positioned well. They do not have to move until threatened directly or there is nothing left to shoot. This gives them and also their counters different roles than pure melee infantry.

Nice

(All) Greek hoplites were better armored than their opponents with the large shields and body armor. I prefer not to see Athenian Hoplites have less armor than Carthaginian Sacred Band or Persian Immortals. I will still settle for it if they beat all other champion spearmen except Spartiates and Hypaspists . Better warriors are more likely to capture or be able to afford better armor, but I agree it is not necessarily a rule. Please don't change the name from Epilektos. It fits perfectly . About Scythian Archers; I really think they should remain as archers rather than use clubs. They may be using clubs for policing the citizenry, but the game does not have civic order in its scope. Regardless of their peacetime equipment, they will pick up their bows against the enemy, just as citizen soldiers working as lumberjacks drop their axes and pick up their spears. Please don't separate them from their bows.

Realism oriented player speaking I think when other great features such as ship ramming, charging, directional attacks (flanking) are implemented, acceleration will make much more sense. In fact, I don't see those features working well without acceleration. The challenge today is, how to make use of it without such features and not break the game. In essence, acceleration has an impact in maneuvering. I see it having a greater impact on cavalry than infantry. It will make cavalry raiding more difficult and require more attention from the executing player. Personally, I like outcome.

Chariots were quite unique and were used sparingly in the timeframe of 0 A.D. Their advantage of speed was taken over by cavalry. In battles against disciplined opponents, they were easily defeated. I envision Chariots to have such differences to cavalry counterparts as to deserve their own templates. I am a fan of novelty . - Cost: Chariots should cost high amount of wood - Population: They come in teams of 2, why not make them cost 2 population? - Built from: Chariots are constructs. Why not build them from a unique building? Or have a prerequisite for them as opposed to building them from stable right away? May echo "used sparingly". - Trample damage: They need to deal trample damage as historically this is what they were deployed for in the time frame of 0 A.D. - Armor: High pierce armor makes sense. I remember discussions about directional attacks. What would be super cool is to have directional armor, or make chariots significantly vulnerable to attacks from behind. - Acceleration: Even lower than cataphracts... They should not be agile. What I have in my mind is, chariots have some strengths (trample damage to massed units, strong front armor) which can be used to defeat undisciplined opponents (here I am thinking represented by not paying attention to micro by the player), but at the same time have exploitable weakness (cannot accelerate to outrun cavalry, weak against rear attacks) to be easily defeated by disciplined (micro-ing) opponents.

@wowgetoffyourcellphone great idea! My proposal: - Additional hack and pierce armor: Kataphraktos literally means armored - Additional metal cost: The additional armor should come from somewhere - Additional food cost: For heavier horses, not a priority like metal cost - Additional attack: Cataphracts used kontos which were longer than xyston used earlier - Speed: Here, I have an interesting idea. Instead of a speed adjustment, they could have lower acceleration, now that it is implemented. What would be super cool is, when charging is hopefully implemented, it would make cataphracts less viable to charge repeatedly. Instead, their role would be to slug out melee combat. This would differentiate them from other spear cavalry which deliver better results with repeated charging and pulling. In essense, this gives them a new combat role and players new tactical depth. Edit: I missed the obvious, - Additional range: As mentioned, cataphracts used longer kontos

Excellent idea to limit number, this way they keep champion status and do not have an overwhelming presence. Also excellent idea to train from the Prytaneion, so it is useful after techs are researched and heroes are trained. The Fortress is already useful later in the game. Since they are acquired to maintain order among citizens, why don't we limit their number to a percentage of citizens than a fixed value? This would be an interesting novelty. And, training from the Prytaneion is in line with their official role.

The main strength of Ancient (Classical) Athenian army was indeed hoplites; maybe not as good as Spartans', but that was their focus nonetheless. Epilektoi were elite and full-time hoplites. Since champions are elite (strongest) and full-time (cannot work), it makes perfect sense for Athenians to have hoplite champions called Epilektos. All great ideas to differentiate them from the other hoplite civilization Spartans. In fact, being superior sailors, Athenians would prefer less non-rowing crew and focus on manueverability for ramming. I think such a bonus makes sense when ship ramming is introduced. Nevertheless, Athenians did perform many amphibious assaults (Sicilian Expedition, campaigns against Persians), this sets them apart, and the idea of a landing unit sits well. My only concern would be: does it make sense for it to be a champion? Should Athenians have swordsmen on par with swordsmen specialists like Romans, Iberians etc. I will propose to make Scythian Archer not a champion from the Gymnasium, but rather a mercenary either from the barracks or simply replacing the current Cretan Archers for Athenians. My justification: should Athenians rely on elite archers the way archer specialists like Kushites do, or should they have foreign mercenary archers which complement their main hoplite army? I can't imagine these guys training in the Gymnasium side by side with Epilektoi .

Innovation: Ancient soldiers did not stand around with a sword in hand all the time, they were citizen-soldiers. Balance: Balance should avoid giving magical damage multipliers where possible. It is a bold direction to balance without hard counters. Art: I see the armor of Philip II I saw in the tomb in Vergina on my Hypaspists, or catch the Library of Celsus on the Seleucid library. I mean how cool are you guys... More Art: The terrain and the biomes are so beautiful I want to take a vacation in some maps . Opensource: I know why it is great. And I see how it is great... And promise of more to come: Formation bonuses, ramming ships, flanking etc.

Hello friends I am from Turkey, but currently living in Germany (01:00 GMT). I was born in Istanbul, so know the Marmara map by heart :D. I lived on the Aegean coast, what used to be ancient Ionia. I visited all the twelve Ionian city-states. My wife is from Iskenderun, ancient Alexandretta near the site of the Battle of Issus. I love learning about history (you get the idea :D), especially Ancient Greek history. And you can tell I love Greek mythology; my nickname is the name Odysseus uses to introduce himself to cyclops Polyphemus as a trick to avoid retribution from the other cyclopes after blinding him. I speak English and Turkish, and am learning German. I cannot speak Greek (yet :D), but I can read Greek letters and understand enough to order a nice dinner.

Hello friends Is it possible to add the option to copy a section of map A to map B including terrain and objects? I checked the history and copying of objects is already implemented in https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/96. And https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/92 is raised for copying terrain, but not implemented yet. I also see that there is no possibility to keep 2 maps open simultaneously at the moment.