real_tabasco_sauce

Ive noticed before that if you have opened the structure tree before in the same game, opening it with this method puts you back to where you left off, not on the civ you clicked. Did you look at the structure tree before this? I've also noticed sometimes that some fraction of selected units don't show health bars. I'll screenshot next time I see it and make a report.

a better civ bonus for carth could be good. Maybe something stone-focused to help with the cost of apartments, temples, and the more expensive stone walls. mm I think the infantry merc train time is pretty substantial, but its true that it really only helps merc civs.

A commit before a27 made it so that champs trained from non-barracks buildings train 25% faster. I think it has helped justify making things like fanatics and spartiates, but not so much for carthage champs.

and whats ur OS?

@TheCJ is gui sim update very similar to sim update? At 200MS? For me GUI sim update doesn't approach even 1/10th of sim update. Can @Seleucids and others also make this comparison?

My understanding is that the f11 profiler uses some averaging, like a sliding window average. For me, hash checks in the f11 profile that get as high as 15 or so MS correspond to profiler2 peaks (gaps in a non-visual replay) as big as 130 -150 MS. Ok this is interesting. You are also on linux right? The bots add in some lag. What you can do to test is do alt+d, opening the developer overlay, and then check "change perspective" this allows you to do "gift from the gods" for each player and then set up some auto queues into the middle to make a large, enduring battle.

I like this, with all the melee mercs and champs, the ranged cav gets very overlooked. I set it up so they train from the temple for civ differentiation purposes. They were originally trained from the temple. While you can get them faster since temples may be built in p2, there doesn't seem to be much benefit at all to doing this. Perhaps some way to make building temples less taxing economically would be good. I notice they take a very long time to build.

I think it’s that the generic name is still siege catapult.

@guerringuerrin and I tested that a few days ago and it’s an improvement but not nearly as noticeable as quick hash only.

Question: how can i compile A26 on Linux? There are many errors Well I am linux naive, so I can't help much. But downloads are here https://releases.wildfiregames.com/. Maybe you could try @andy5995's appimage? https://github.com/0ad-matters/0ad-appimage/releases its on that page if you scroll.

No, its just an observation I made that the 4 linux players also report worse performance in addition to the stutter. I think there needs to be an a26-a27 profile comparison to put this suspicion to rest.

when you complete the technology, you can train centurions from the fortress directly.

Not the usual 20 turns?

All the linux users here have described really low FPS in addition to the stutters. I just have the stutters, with good fps between them. With the stutter fix, do you still get unusually low FPS once you reach p3 like u said earlier?

nvm, thats a graphical profile right? so then those are just the hash checks

These large regular spikes are interesting. I don't have them even in large games, which you can see in my earlier comments. I would look more closely but I can't open the jsonp. This is without AI right? Could you zoom in on some of the more regular spikes, including the surrounding ~30 turns? The full hash checks are not logged so they should show up as gaps, not spikes right?

Interesting. We don't really have a comparison with a26, but seems like pretty bad performance. @MetaPhyZic, @Atrik, and @Seleucids all mentioned low fps upon reaching p3/late game in addition or in combination with stuttering. In my case, I have good FPS but notice the stutter. All of these players are on a linux distro while I play on windows. @0 calories what operating system do you use? So maybe indeed there is more than one issue at hand. @Atrik even said that he gets to 3fps even with quick hash only. Maybe can @Seleucids and/or @Atrik profile a single player combat demo huge and compare between a26 and a27?

maybe, from the above, I am starting to think the bottleneck theory is pretty well supported.

ok yeah I can already tell that they still occur in a26 and that they still disrupt the GUI. Its easiest to tell by panning. Indeed, even early on, there is a slight freeze every 4 sec. state_hash_check is unlogged in a26, but I can see 4MS jumps coinciding with the stutter every 4 sec. I'll see how large they get

it still shows up in profiles with the same magnitude. here is a 4v4 on foothills from a26 I'm going to watch this replay on normal speed and see if any stutters coincide with jumps in state hash check. For the record, in a27, I have seen the state hash check value surpass 20MS in the f11 profiler, which I have not yet seen in a26 or the rc

yeah "rc1" in those profiles is the one @Gurken Khan shared.

From what I understand, we are still figuring out why it seems to be worse. The unfortunate thing is that aside from this, the performance really is strikingly better: https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/issues/7589#issuecomment-111582 (red is a26, green is a27). So this is essentially holding back the benefits of the work that was done, at least for MP. Ok, so here are 3 profiles of combat demo huge in multiplayer, along with one with quick hash only: fullhashCDH.jsonp nofullhashCDH.jsonp a26CDH.jsonp rc1CDH.jsonp I can't tell any significant difference between the magnitude of the full hash across these alphas, they all seem to be 120 to 150MS for me.

My guess is what registers for faster PC players as a stutter, a brief hiccup, could be far, far worse for players with a lower spec PC. The 'gaps' you see below represent the former: This is what it looks like for a full TG, you can see the effect of the stutter for sure. This is a 19 minute foothills TG. the blue lines are normal turns that take very little time to compute, and the gaps are the full hashing. We have done these for a long time, but I suspect that in addition to improvements in other areas revealing the stutter, we might also have more to hash overall. So yeah there is full hashing in replays. I'll look at earlier versions and see if the hashing gap remains large like this. if you want to profile stuff, there is a really excellent guide on how to do it here: https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/wiki/Profiler2

So that does actually sound like the same issue @0 calories, just more severe. Was the one you did with 8xAI more similar to your experience from a26?

Can you describe your problem in more detail? Do you drop down to 4fps irregularly, like every 4 seconds, or is it just a constant laggy experience? How quickly in a typical game do you get down to 4fps? And what fps would an equivalent game in a26 have? What steps to fix it have you tried, like switching to different graphics settings in options -> graphics (advanced). Have you tried combinations of Vulkan/openGL and with vs without GPU skinning? It could be that you are experiencing a separate issue.