alre
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Posts posted by alre
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15 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
Lets take the discussion here @alre, @Dizaka.
@alre Currently sniping is useful in roughly 80% of large battles. With balance changes, I can make this number about 5% to 10%, allowing for other ways for players to make their battles more fruitful (aka micro). This is a far better solution that removing the ability to control one unit of a selection at a time.
@Dizaka it is not important "how much" micro there is, but instead how impactful the micro that is. Basically the core "skill pyramid" might look something like this:
- Economy: the ability to control your economy and maintain production is a player's bread and butter. This is the most fundamental skill, and just about all middle-tier players should be quite good at this. Very good players still improve here with damage control.
- Military Composition and Game knowledge: This is where your knowledge of civ strengths and weakness comes in, as well as unit roles, strengths, and weaknesses. If you know the capabilities of the enemy and you have scouted to see what units they are getting, you have a chance to use game knowledge to counter their move.
- Timing and positioning: Making choices on the 'when' to attack and the 'where' to attack are pretty important, just as the 'when' and 'where' to build a fort or when to age up. Do you charge straight into a very defensible position? do you look for a weaker spot to attack? Do you wait to mass your units, or dive right into a fight?
- Micro: When in a fight, you want to control units based on unit characteristics. Flanking, retreating wounded units, targeting the weaker enemy units, protecting vulnerable units, encircling units, spreading units out, and formation control are all means for one's micro skills to take effect in a fight. This is the top of the pyramid, as it is the hardest to learn and makes the least difference.
@Dizaka in no way is micro a barrier for entry for new players. Getting a feel for the economy and basic strategy is the skill gap for new players. The fact of the matter is it takes a long time to learn how to play 0ad very well, to get all the levels of the pyramid. If a player that has all of these tools at their disposal beats a new player, how is that a barrier for entry? The only way that discourages new players is if those new players think they should expect to win.
if you start to remove (aka automate) layers of this pyramid, you have essentially less content. Less decisions to make, less choices, and less tools at your disposal to beat the enemy, no matter how small. In other words the game would be more formulaic and less fun, with the impact of random chance becoming more impactful.
I think the area that 0ad stands the most to gain here is level 2. I think more upgrades, civs, and units, we could see more interesting strategy.
I like how ranged melee rebalance would make sniping less important.
but maybe 5% to 10% is not ideal? maybe 0% is ideal. On the other hand, I know that if sniping only becomes uselful at higher competitive level, those players will be more ready to accept this kind of micro, provided that is not allways good, but there is a choice involved.
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9 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
Well, it should exist
what? why?
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farewell Stan. Be back sometimes.
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I think houses in the game look better than the reconstruction and that's an artistic license. artists who make the buildings models are always trying to give a visually rich representation of them, which is not quite the same as four walls with a roof that shows a small opening... a house of that kind would have a porch and items in the inside that our artists will rather depict in the outside.
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at the moment, no. 8 players is the maximum.
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3 hours ago, Hemachandra said:
I think something needs to be done with the elite units. It's not normal for a bunch of elite units to literally demolish or instantly capture buildings. They should either be weakened, making them barely stronger than normal units, or the buildings and the buildings' resistance to capture should be significantly strengthened. A bunch of unkillable elite units make siege weapons useless - this is bad.
I also think that conquering ability of champions is an issue and should be nerfed. it's not very realistic either.
siege engines however, are far from necessary in 0ad, regardless of the type of units you are using, and that's more like a feature of the game I think.
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8 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
right, so now all you have to do is package it as a mod and it will be used more frequently.
Perhaps going forward, some files should be made impossible to overwrite using a mod when checks are ignored.
some things can't be in a mod. however, all checks can be fouled with the right expertise, and little enough effort.
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I doubt a two story house would be more representative than 1-story houses, how common were they?
At the moment only Carthage has 2-story houses, by virtue of phoenicians apparently being the first to employ them.
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6 hours ago, krt0143 said:
Of what? Of a mundane task? Well, selecting a large group of units doing something, embarking them on a ship, then disembarking them somewhere else. More often than not many/most of them will start running to return to their ancient start locations, wherever those might be...
I can reproduce this on A26:
- put units in defensive stance while idle (or not, I suppose)
- tell them to garrison something
- make sure that the garrisoned unit/building doesn't have a rally point set, and ungarrison it in any way
the unit will move towards the previous idle position.
this is very broken, needs fix. Possibly just add an instruction to forget this.heldPosition when garrisoning in UnitAI.js.
thanks for reporting.
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19 minutes ago, krt0143 said:
Of what? Of a mundane task? Well, selecting a large group of units doing something, embarking them on a ship, then disembarking them somewhere else. More often than not many/most of them will start running to return to their ancient start locations, wherever those might be...
mmmmh seems impossible. I'll try to reproduce later.
20 minutes ago, krt0143 said:I'm out of here. I don't have neither the patience nor the need to endure self-absorbed children. I liked the game and thought I'd invest some time in it, but now I understand why everything here is empty and silent.
I insist you stay, you're a good tester, and it's nice to have a clown in the bunch
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btw I'm not a dev. things are silent because there are very few active devs.
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21 minutes ago, krt0143 said:
From what I was told setting units to "defensive" makes them always record their current location and go back to it, even for mundane tasks.
It's that second part, the mundane tasks, that point #1 addresses.an example?
22 minutes ago, krt0143 said:"Defensive stance" is a necessity outside of PvP games.
said who? your doctor? if you don't like using some stance, don't use it, it's that simple. you don't need to change it for everyone else, not simply on the basis that you and I don't like it.
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9 hours ago, krt0143 said:
It's about making the unit orders more logical for new users.
I have problems with the (otherwise great) feature of "go there, do something, and then come back": The "Oh cool, they come back!" becomes all too often "Aw crap, they go away...". I waste inordinate amounts of time trying to catch stupid units deciding they have to go/return to some point on the other side of a "giant" sized map, instead of staying put and wait for my orders.
And no, the attack movement doesn't necessarily help: For instance what can you do when unloading unit groups from a ship, and they all start scuttling away like scared cockroaches? While you need to take care of some urgent matter on the other side of the map? Wouldn't it be real nice if they stayed put, waiting for you to tell them what to do?
What I'm suggesting is to reverse how it (seems to) work right now:- Unit stances ("aggressive", etc.) should only and exclusively determine how a unit will react to enemies in its vicinity (or being attacked).
- Units should not remember where they were when receiving a standard command (standard right click), nor try to go back there when they consider they have finished their task. Never, ever.
- Units should remember where they started from and do their "do something and then come back" thing only when specifically ordered so (Key+right click). That "memory" should only last for that specific task, i.e. when they come back they forget about everything, and are ready for new type #2 or #3 orders.
- Repairing a dropsite shouldn't be an invitation to gather. When building one, okay, that makes some sense. But repairing my dock is just that, a repair, and I shouldn't have to catch the repairers before they vanish into the hinterland to cut wood... It's even more annoying with the "Norse" civ which has a dropsite ship. Each time I repair that one (and it happens often!), my repairers scuttle off to cut wood...
What this changes, is that you won't find yourself chasing after units which, for some unfathomable reason, kept a memory of some past location, and won't lose it unless you memorize a new location, which is just shifting the problem but not solving it. When you have 300 units to micromanage, of which 150 have a mind of their own, your head explodes. People trying to second-guess your intentions is already annoying with normal humans, it gets horrible with hundreds of stupid-but-lightning fast AI units...
I guess you all have got used to it, and probably don't even notice it anymore, but for new users it's a major pain in the neck, compounded by the lack of documentation. Here you are, making two coordinate but separate attacks on very different places on a giant map, all the while the AI is trying to storm your CC somewhere else, and you need to
spendwaste most of your time catching your rebellious units...
(Also posted this in the suggestion thread, but made a copy here for the discussion I feel coming...
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- I don't get point #1, what's the change wrt current behaviour?
- seems points #2 and #3 are solved if you only use aggressive and never defensive. I don't personally recommend defensive and I think noone uses it pvp, but it's more popular on single player
- #4 could be a good point. I never personally had that kind of problems because I queue commands quite often (as everyone playing pvp)
btw there are written tutorials for enhancing your game, not a whole game manual though, that would be very heavy and, I suspect, not very popular.
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11 minutes ago, hyperion said:
Another problem with expansion I forgot to mention when I last posted is the CC itself. The cost is to height and the placement restriction is problematic. Basically you put yourself on a backfoot and then due to capture potentially gifting it just away right after. Maybe the civ center shouldn't be dropsite, temple, houses, barrack, stable, fortress and forge all at once so that sane pricing and no placement restriction could be reasonable. Then expansion comes easier and at a lot lower risk.
I strongly support a further reduction in cc cost. a couple of possible nerfs that could go along with the reduction in cost/build time:
- no housing bonus: the baseline 20 pop is hardcorded instead
- max arrows reduced (currently is 23, could be half that number and that wouldn't make a difference in early game, as for late game, I say it would be a balance improvement actually)
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1 hour ago, Gurken Khan said:
Would elongation of pikes be a good tech idea?
I believe simply changing the range won't have a big impact on the game, maybe just in pike vs pike scenarios... one should test it.
I'd say let's have melee rebalance first. btw I don't get why we are all stuck waiting for a27, instead of pushing forward the community mod.
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10 minutes ago, Vrayer said:
Is there something significant about the size of spears? I understand that during the time of the Macedonians, they possessed remarkably long spears, and subsequently, other Hellenic civilizations adopted this practice. Perhaps we could incorporate this into the game; for example, the Macedonians could start with spear men with a larger hitbox, and then other civilizations could potentially copy this feature? what if this tec is only available if a macedonian is in the game? as a civ bonus tec but also for opponent?
are you telling us you never noticed that mace have pikemen instead of spearmen, with different stats and longer attack range?
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4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
All civs:
"Siege Rations": A late-game City Phase boost to unit health. All units +10% health. Cost: 2000 food. Building: Farmstead.
nah, late game food is pretty easy to float. will to fight is a good tech because of the 1500 cost in metal and stone. you got to go take that stone.
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what the hell is a headless replay?
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55 minutes ago, Dizaka said:
@Mentula This is awesome.
Just a question (without looking through your code which would probably provide me with an answer to this question and if so sorry for time-wasting) how do you obtain the stat data? Do you do a headless replay and collect the stats? Do you just do a replay and use the stats collected?
Curious and it would help me if you'd share this information, if possible.
do you know you can see stats from a replay without starting the replay? I mean from the game.
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3 hours ago, guerringuerrin said:
And right now there are people using autosnipe against players who are not notified of this.
do you have any evidence or just reporting a rumor?
2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:0 A.D. is in serious trouble. Full stop, these mods are killing the game. @guerringuerrin is right, in that folks with skills to actually help with developing the core game would rather use that time and effort making what essentially amounts to cheating tools in order to destroy the PvP aspect of 0 A.D. for short term LoLz. Once multiplayer has been turned over to the cheaters and spammers and botters, it's a sure sign of the game's death.
mmmh no. the endless debate may be bad for the game though, especially since there is never a hint of any actual solution.
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On 15/01/2023 at 11:52 PM, Genava55 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkqxGsYN6Xg&list=PLKVA_doZwYjasBxyqgHJeMGWeUyJSWjxM
I am curious, do you like the campaigns in AoE 4?
In comparison with AoE 2, AoM, AoE 3,which one do you prefer?
AoM campaign was gorgeus. AoE3 campaign looks a lot like AoM, AoE4 campaign looks very silly.
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if I understand correctly, to test the code one would need a linux server? Is there maybe a dev/qas environment already up to meddle with somehow?
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2 hours ago, krt0143 said:
Sorry, actually no. This is not an economics game, it's a strategy game with a side dish of economics. Sorry but I don't see the connection with the speed clicking competition.
No, not really. Resource availability only slows down the first phases, but inevitably later on you have more capacity to gather, and, after some point you have paid everything you needed to pay for (must-have buildings, techs), so your spending goes down while your income remains the same (unless you stop gathering, but that's not an imposed limitation, it's a choice).
The earning/spending ratio is not linear, and while you starve in the beginning, you have more than you need later on, when your only expense is training fighting units. Obviously if you rush the enemy as soon as you can you won't really notice, but I like to take my time and I do.
That's an unfounded supposition. I got my backside handed to me a grand total of 2-3 times (in the beginning), since that I've beat the computer over a dozen times, and 3-4 times I've abandoned the match because the game became too boring (entrenched situation it would take hours to sort out).
TL;DR: By now I've got used enough to 0 A.D. to beat the computer without a problem.What I'm complaining about is not that the computer is too strong (it isn't. It's better than AoE 2, but still limited), I'm complaining it's not fun to play against it, because of the totally not-human-like speed and relentlessness.
Yes, I know. It's kind of obvious it's streamlined for that, but it's a pity because it could easily also cater for those perverts who don't like PvP games...
What it needs is more, and non-compulsory choices, so you can decide to do it this, or maybe that way, depending on the situation.
That's where the interest is for single-player games. Single player PvP is absolutely pointless, the AI lacking the only thing humans have over it, creativity.I don't agree. Game designer is a job, much like film director, and among them you have the better and the less good ones.
There is no surprise gameplay quality is progressively going down the drain nowadays marketing has the creative say. But I'm going OT.AoE was an improved copy of 1994's "Warcraft: Orcs & Humans". I know, I was there. Warcraft was revolutionary, and AoE (first of the name) was a me-too copy, but with (for the time) jaw-dropping graphics.
Obviously it fathered a franchise, but they were intelligent enough to improve the handling and keep the good parts intact (well, I only bought AoE, AoE 2 and AoE 2's Expansions, so can't talk for the later ones).you are right about many things:
- SP material and overall experience needs work
- the AI needs work
- siege needs work
but you are so deaf and busy listening to yourself that you you keep missing the point: the game needs work but lacks the people who put the work.
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41 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:
I agree 100%. But low wood is probably the #2 reason why some maps/biomes are unpopular (#2 after only the fact that some maps require the use of a navy).
All I mean to say is that a reduction is radius size should be done carefully because its easy to overdo it and the potential for blowback.
agree. I remember there was a point between a24 and a26 that we stopped playing many maps we liked, like unknown, frontier, stronghold, rivolet, rheinland... and the reason is wood generation. I am not sure if something changed in those maps, or if it's mainland that was improved to the point that these other maps looked that worse by comparison.
===[COMMITTED]=== Achaemenid Siege
in Completed Art Tasks
Posted
what do you mean? huge ensembles of archers can be pretty effective and really bring the feeling of a giant army (also quite brittle, because when they don't snipe, archers pretty much suck).