Yekaterina

1.5x or 2x please.

I like your thinking! Rank 2 units Maybe leave crossbows at P2 and later because they were cutting-edge tech at the time, and a village shouldn't have been able to mass produce this units. The Han used crossbows to counter Mongolian (Xiongnu) archer cavalry, so maybe they can get a bonus against archer cav (which is currently extremely annoying to players before P3). I like this idea. Maybe a free tech or very cheap tech that requires little time to research. Rank 3 units already need 57% more time to train than rank 1 units, so I think that's a big enough nerf. Please also consider that rank 3 ranged units do no additional pierce damage nor extra armour, so they are not OP at all!

May I ask why?

Don't panic, nothing has been committed yet! It's all talk for now.

We can add it in to see what happens, although I think the default barracks is absolutely necessary.

Does this game even have an age limit? I don't think so. If the natives did dress like that then that's fine. To be honest most players can't see models in great detail.

Remove things that annoy us and start from scratch: only keep the basics, then only add things that pleases us.

Many players want Feldmap mod to be a vanilla feature of 0AD A26. This mod adds a new map called Mainland Balanced, which has perfectly balanced resource distribution among players. Now I have a problem commiting to this to svn as a patch: I copied the files into the correct folders, but svn is not detecting it. What went wrong? in powershell: No difference detected!

200 wood I build pyramids very late, only if I need to spam cav. I only remember 2 or 3 games where this has happened. 2 or 3 barracks will definitely make you boom a lot faster if your eco can follow it. Most players don't have a strong enough eco to support production at that rate, so it would make Rauls seem very fast. Also he likes to use huge batches or 15 women which makes his population counter jump very fast, but the actual time when his 200 units are out and about is a lot longer compared to someone with 4 barracks. Anyways, we can have P1 archery range that costs 200 stone but I won't ever use it...

Ptolemies + extra berries doesn't count. I can reach P3 + 200 pop before him using my build order, although he will have a larger eco score I am not doing that lol

ranged units only get health bonus and capture bonus, so no need. They already take 7 more seconds to train than rank 1. If you add in melee then they definitely need an increase in cost.

han-china.zip This mod contains my proposed changed and fixes. Feature changes: 1. Fields have 5 women on them working at normal rates, but they are smaller. 2. Crossbow stats: 6.7 pierce per 750ms at 50 m. (almost identical dps to slingers, can be beaten by skirmishers at point blank range but beats all other ranged infantry from 60m starting range). They will be your main ranged damage output for late game. 3. Starting unit is a sword cav and cc trains sword cav. (for civ differentiation) 4. Barracks trains melee and ranged infantry as normal 5. Practice range trains only elite archers and elite crossbowman. Offers ranged unit techs that are not available elsewhere. Bug changes: CC size re-adjusted. Previously the CC had a large empty area around it that did not allow me to build on. Now I removed it, so that building size is honest.

oh no, I need 3 barracks to boom! Can't afford too much stone consumption early on. My idea was use crossbows as slinger/javelin alternative. Please see my mod:

Units have rank basic (infantry_archer_b), advanced (infantry_archer_a) and elite (infantry_archer_e). Advanced and elite ranked units have greater health, armour and capture attack, but there is no increase in raw dps output. Citizen-soldiers start at basic rank when trained from barracks, and as they fight enemies (hurting the enemies), they gain exp points. After an unit has stored a certain amount of exp points they can be ranked up to the next tier. Mercenaries start at rank 2 and require less exp points to go to rank 3, so they are OP. If we can train rank 3 (elite units by default), that means you can have a very durable army in no time. For a comparison, rank 3 archers have 78 health compared to 50 health of rank 1 archers.

Another idea: give champion cavalry crossbowmen penetration ability? Or, higher firing rate for lower damage per shot? Maybe we can have a gatlin gun unit, that would be funny. Or, shoot 3 arrows at a time?

I made it identical to slingers. But, in practice range you can train tier 3 crossbowmen by default!!

But that is a problem, because killing enemies is a lot harder than gathering resources. In, my teammates defended against a double rush and return rushed the other side, causing 2 enemies to resign. He got around 100 kills in 15 minutes. In the meantime, I just stayed in my base and boomed got 14 minutes straight, and it wasn't even a fast boom. Yet, I had almost double the score of the guy at the second place. I feel like this is not fair on them as they did all of the contributions and played with great skill, whereas I, the eco bot, got the MVP by a far lead. Same applies to that Athila above. Maybe remove the score feature completely. I have watched every single Newbie Rush video and I found that Jim is often mislead by the numbers when awarding MVP

Same git repository?

Why crossbow rush? They are not significantly different from archers, and only available since P2. In my proposed changes mod I gave crossbows identical dps to slingers at a range of 45 metres (basically slinger unit for Han). I tried my stats in the scenario editor and eventually 10 archer +30 of my crossbows + 20 spearmen was on par with a Celtic army of the same size.

We are already encouraging different playstyles. For example, Spartans and Ptolemies encourage infantry, Carthaginians encourage mercenary rushes, Persians encourage cav and Mauryans encourage elephant spam. When Han comes in, we will see some new strategies involving clever use of techs and siege weapons, as well as placements of ministers. I am ok with changing the paddies a bit, but the proposed costs and farming rates above are simply unacceptable. But not too much! Consider any game with a random civ: you can't allow one civ to be able to destroy another civ completely at any given time. Right now, the Spartans can do a full infantry push against the Persians in P1 and they will have 0 way to defend against it. Don't try to dismiss me by saying 'build defence towers', because you need to spend so much wood for these towers and they can be captured very easily even when fully garrisoned. The Spartan hoplite health bonus makes the towers useless. It effectively adds 1 more archer to your army but that's nothing if they have equal numbers off hoplites and skirmishers. Furthermore you never know when an infantry attack will come. Ironically, Ptolemies can't defend against a camel rush unless they also mass produce camels. If you are playing as the Persians against Spartans, then you are destined to loose if your enemies does an early attack (unless you spam enough cav, but then your eco is rubbish and you lose in P3 push :/ ). The most deadly thing about an infantry push on a small map is, you can never tell when the enemy will come. Even if you play on revealed map, they can suddenly charge everything into your base and it takes like 30 seconds for them to arrive.

It doesn't matter how much food I spent in women, because as long as my berries are still there, I keep pumping out women. I start the first farm at minute 2:30 if I don't have extra berries. By this time I should have around 30 women + my starting citizen soldiers. Before that, my food income depended on berries and hunt - same for every civ, including the Han. But now, you suddenly ask for 200 more wood for me to build farms. 200wood at minute 2:30-3:00 is a big price for me. Yes, later on I can save 4 more women to chop trees, but, at 2:30 when I need to build farms, I can't afford the extra 200 wood! You might be able to get away with building 1 farm at a time and wait for the 200 wood to be collected, but that is very inefficient as with any other civ, I would be researching the farming tech by now.

I suppose anywhere between 490 wood and 510 wood is fine, but it is hard to balance other things with food production since food is the very basis of your population. Anything too different from other civs means a lot of whining from lobby players and this civ getting banned. Iber, carth and ptol are already getting banned in games. In A24 all archer civs were banned. We don't want this to happen again, right? You can get civ differentiation from actor models and perhaps a few new buildings that are useless (e.g. Ishtar gate, Laozi gate, Pillar of Ashoka) or weak units that have little military significance (Macedonian champion crossbow) just to keep the single players and city builders happy. If you touch the main economy or basic units of a civ, you will get dozens of angry complaints like the beginning of A24. One idea to get differentiation, however, is to make Han start with sword cav instead of archer cav. We don't have a civ that trains sword cav from the cc yet! @LetswaveaBook @BreakfastBurrito_007 what do you think? P1 sword cav rush?

@wowgetoffyourcellphone @Lion.Kanzen just in case my previous explanation didn't make sense: In order to boom (build population and economy quickly), you need to hit certain checkpoints. THe first checkpoints is, 4 minutes after the game starts you need 1 barrack + 1 CC producing units non-stop. Some players might get this set up at minute 2. In order to supply this rate of unit production, you need to gather at least 12.5 food per second no matter what. With any existing civs in A25, this can be achieved by 25 women farming on 5 fields, so I need to spend a total of 500 wood to build these fields. AT minute 6 you will need 2 barracks and 1 CC pumping infantry non-stop. To supply this you need 20 food per second. That means 7 or 8 fields, with 35 to 40 farmers, and a total of 800 wood spent on farming. I normally get a third barrack before going to town phase, at that point I need 10 to 11 fields to supply my production and the cost of P2, mining techs. By this point I have spent 1000 wood on building fields. note, I did not mention farming techs because that's the same for every civ. My problem with the Han at the moment is, these smaller fields means you will need more fields and hence more wood than the listed values above for other civs, so it makes booming with the Han more difficult in early stages. So the total wood you need to produce 12.5 food per second must be exactly 500 to make the civ balanced with respect to others. It doesn't matter how many fields or women you need, although the less women the better (so more can work on wood)

I really don't want practice range and melee barracks to be separate, because that makes defending against rushes very very difficult. It's too expensive to make 2 buildings and you risk both being captured. If you make just ranged barracks - can defend ranged cav rush, but you can't resist an infantry push from a jav / slinger civ. You also can't defend against spear cav. Then you must allow 4 women per field. The idea is: for every other civ, you invest 20 wood per farmer to produce 0.5 food per second. To supply 1 barrack and 1 CC you need 5 fields, or 12.5 food per second (assuming you have enough wood). This value shouldn't be any different for the Han. So if you want 3 farmers per field, then you need to make the cost 60 wood instead. I would much prefer a farming rate bonus over smaller cheaper fields.

Mercenaries are quite unaffordable in P1 without a strong economy to back it up. Even if you do train a bunch of YueZhi mercs, they will be idle after the fight -> poor efficiency My solution: give crossbow identical stats as slingers, then make YueZhi javelin mercs available in P2. Another idea is NanMan elephant mercs, but that might be far fetched.