BreakfastBurrito_007
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Posts posted by BreakfastBurrito_007
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@wowgetoffyourcellphone why is it bad having different gather rates bad for female citizens and the male economic unit?
I don't think that just increasing women gather rates and decreasing citizen soldier gather rates will help solve this issue, because women (two-gendered mod doesn't make male villager functionally different than a woman) still fulfill the same limited economic role, leaving citizen soldiers to be required for economy.
The goal of such changes would be that a pure, unprotected "boom" would be only women and the male economic unit, with no barracks in sight.
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Just now, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
ehh, the mod affects gathering rate of infantry by -20%. Can definitely discuss whether that is enough or not though.
The citizens-soldiers would still be the best option for getting metal, stone, and acceptable for wood (they won't die to raids). Having two separate economic units is nice because the women can be trained faster from cc as well as houses, and male eco unit would be made exclusively from cc and be used for different economic tasks. I think the gather rate reduction would need for cs in this case would need to be more like 50% or 60%.
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5 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Or just do this:
That is not the same thing. It results in no gameplay change, because it does not change the value of citizen-soldiers.
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The core of the issue of the booming meta is that training soldiers is simultaneously the best economic and military process. In order to resolve the issue citizen-soldier infantry need to lose a good portion of their economic value. There is a whole other discussion on this, but the leading suggestion is to introduce a male economic unit that can be trained from the cc.
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4 hours ago, Silier said:
Its not constant. Height difference is calculated each time.
for each ranged attack? Sorry if I am misunderstanding.
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@Yekaterina nice calculations. I think the main issue with the current system is determining the height "h" in the situation. There must be some reason why it is not measured with each ranged query and instead established as a constant by comparing the building location with the average of the entire map. Maybe it is for performance purposes? I don't have a good idea of what calculations are too intense to be done for each ranged attack, but I have to assume having a constant "h" is easier even if it is frequently wrong.
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I think one-click bonuses like this are not conducive to good gameplay. I think strategies and civ bonuses should require more planning, timing, and costs than a quick click. I think these bonuses are hard to balance and the short activation/ duration of the tech makes them kind of gimmicky.
I do agree that temples could be a great source of civ diversification, and that their utility cases and value are nearly the same for all civs with some exceptions such as Kush and Gauls.
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If you are confusing ramirez brothers with other players, just know that they always say funny things and try funny rushes, they also argue a lot.
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3 minutes ago, hyperion said:
Don't know how you tested, anyway simply setting it to 10%
Is this 10% slower or 10% of the original fire rate? I sure hope it is neither
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maybe the easiest way to do it is combine .75 x damage with adding a little armor to everything, or perhaps hp.
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I was thinking something around .75, but different ones can be tested fairly easily.
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10 dps to 6.6 scaled for each unit would be nice. Factor of 2/3 damage multiplier. Perhaps you could try 1/2 too to see if that gets something that is maybe too slow.
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9 hours ago, Stan` said:
Mmmh isn't that what guarding is for ?
Last time I tried guard, they would still run away when hit and follow too far behind the unit. I guess I haven’t tried it recently since healing isn’t that great overall.
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@Lion.Kanzen I think he means the official version. This mod he made is based on the community mod, so it could be merged once things are optimized, a27 is released, and people vote for it.
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Overkill is a thing, yes. However, in many fights you see 1/2 or 1/3 health melee units alive for enough time to make a difference, especially if the armies are spread out horizontally. Healing melee units is inherently more valuable than healing ranged units due to them having more armor, which means each hitpoint healed is harder to remove from a pikeman than it would be on a skirmisher.
Healing heros are fantastic in the following cases:
- sniping
- building arrows
I don't think I would like an automated behavior for healing, but maybe the ability to set them to closely follow a unit of my choosing.
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It’s not a proposal at this stage, it is a working concept. Next steps are to evaluate the results rather than speculate.
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@wowgetoffyourcellphone its an interesting idea. Each hitpoint of health healed is more effective on armored units than ranged units.
Perhaps an alternative would be assigning unique behavior to the "follow" or "guard" unit commands for healers, where they follow a bit closer and maybe still consider other nearby units.
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9 hours ago, chrstgtr said:
How does it change the incentive to have just enough melee units in the middle to absorb damage if melee cannot reach range units, which are dealing dmg
That is a misconception that melee units need to hit ranged units in order to be effective. Also you have to remember that if sniping ranged units is less effective, then players will be able to control their units better, so you could just move some melee units to attack the enemy ranged during a fight.
You are pretending that because melee units can't catch up to ranged units they can't deal any damage and thus overall are only useful for their armor. You have to remember that every unit fights from a stationary position, which means melee units can and will deal damage to ranged units and melee units alike.
9 hours ago, chrstgtr said:No, this doesn't change anything. It just creates an incentive to spam just as many melee units as your enemy and then snipe. That doesn't change the meta. The middle is still a spam pit of death. While the real work that will decide the battle is sniping of range units. That's still a meat shield.
You say this as if you have tried or tested the mod, which is very interesting.
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22 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:
Melee units can get more armor to be able to reach enemy range units. Option (2) is more or less where a25 was with melee units becoming (slightly) more important and battles being decided by whoever actually reached enemy range units with their melee.
I would like to offer a correction to this statement:
"... being decided by whoever actually reached enemy ranged units with their melee" should be changed with "... being decided by whoever runs out of melee units first"
because the main deciding factor is not that melee units can now damage enemy ranged units, its that ranged units can now shoot other ranged units. Sniping in no way solves the meat shield problem because the focus is all on the ranged units, ignoring the harmless melee units even if they manage to close the distance to attack ranged units.
Now imagine the same scenario with higher dps melee units: the sniping player ignores the melee units and the melee units kill his army. Now both players need to make a value decision of what unit they want to kill first melee or ranged, as well as whether or not sniping is the best micro they can use, (as opposed to unit control micro).
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2 hours ago, chrstgtr said:
They're already the strongest CS unit.
javelin cavary.
2 hours ago, chrstgtr said:I don't think there is a meat shield meta problem nor have I widely heard people complain of one
Before sniping, pikemen were great due to being the highest armored CS unit. This is what made Ptols so OP, because their pike health hero made it impossible to damage the slingers since they were behind pikemen.
The introduction and proliferation of sniping only means that ranged units can now bypass the meat shield. Sniping works because there is no value in killing melee units by and large. If melee units dealt more damage, then they would have increased combat value.
Many people are frustrated with how simple fights are because of meat shield and now sniping. It is worth noting that people who are not complaining also don't know that things can be better.
I agree that in @real_tabasco_sauce's mod swordcav will likely be quite powerful, we can test them and further reduce hack and/ or pierce armor if need be.
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@Atrik They will now die faster to buildings because their pierce damage is lower. We will have to see how fast they kill rams and potentially give 1 or 2 hack armor levels to rams.
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31 minutes ago, Atrik said:
I wonder if this would make ranged units useless or sniping of melees really important.
Hopefully there can be a happy middle ground. I think this could make unit compostitions way more important.
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Nice work! I am hoping that this produces fights with more variables.
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fractional armor is ok by me, fractions came in math update like 2 or 3 so modern humans should be able to run with no compatibility issues.
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Gameplay issue: Booming = Turtling
in Gameplay Discussion
Posted
I would prefer it as a secondary role, where booming is a lot slower if you do it with cs.
No, because when you make anything you need to make the best use of it. If citizen soliders are better at attacking and defending than they are at eco, then players will use them for fighting.