BreakfastBurrito_007
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Posts posted by BreakfastBurrito_007
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24 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:
Thanks, @real_tabasco_sauce and everyone else who participated here
Yep let us hope that the mod contributors are still willing to progress the game despite having their best work outvoted by people privileged to have both no work invested in patches and near total ignorance of the patch itself.
Its a shame that people are denying this effort a chance to even be tested. A26 was a fine alpha even before the community mod, aside from the han fields bug. People must understand that there was a risk of the Athens team bonus being OP for example, but we voted for it because we wanted to try it out.
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3 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
I would say learning new things is good. If there are more things to learn, that means there is more content to explore.
I would like more people to have this mindset.
People are saying that all the upgrades in the system being bundled together is a bad idea. I suppose the alternative is to have 23 fractions of the system all in series in the poll. If you support this way of voting for the system please state the advantages.
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23 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
Yeah we did something like that. Unfortunately this means only 5 changes will be actually added, which is a tiny fraction of the work I put in here
Hopefully I don't get any blame for the lack of content.
That blame should go to the boring players who resist anything they don't understand. Keep in mind that to understand it all you need is to read the link that is posted and ask the author a question.
That would be very twisted indeed if you got blamed.
If I remember correctly the Team bonuses were almost rejected last time and have since been quite successful in terms of player feedback.
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33 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:
Yesterday the game wouldn't even let me build a storehouse in such a spot, because it "wasn't my own terrain".
I think the main reason you can build a cc there and not a storehouse is that cc's can be built without territory root, but storehouses can not. The pocket of territory you capture with a barracks is not "enemy" territory anymore, so cc's can be placed there, but is "un-rooted" so you can't put a storehouse.
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By far the most iffy changes are the blanket cav hp/speed decreases. There is certainly no one size fits all cavalry nerf, we can't even agree on one change to one unit: for example spearcav +1/2 pierce armor or javelin cavalry -2 pierce attack.
Unit specific upgrades are exciting though, and offer their own balancing opportunities.
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@chrstgtr I think a good way to do it would be mixing in some healers, and training swordsmen already rank 2 from the roman army camp. I think it is great because it encourages using the CS swordsmen as damage dealing units rather than meatshield.
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6 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:
I like that. I think @BreakfastBurrito_007 made a great point about how the diminishing marginal returns is not actionable--it really just makes Sele easier. In that case, I think you can give an even bigger cost and/or build time decrease to make it "more" actionable and relevant. Deceased cost/build time could open up some different build orders (i.e., people would be less likely to chase berries).
to be honest decreasing the cost and build time also would give seles an advantage when it comes to diminishing farmer returns because it would be easier for them to build extra farms to spread out workers to 3/5 per farm or so. Perhaps the diminishing returns is something more players should consider even with the current game, at least I have never intentionally spread out my farmers.
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About the "either or" discussion for seleucid civ bonus, I think the farm cost and build time reduction will have more gameplay impact than the elimination of diminishing returns per farmer for seles. The diminishing returns per farmer I think would get treated as a simple food rate bonus and would not as visible or actionable in-game.
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11 minutes ago, Norse_Harold said:
What OS are you using? If you're using Windows then this bug report explains why TLS encryption doesn't always work. Which version of WIndows are you using, though?
You have asked whether it is ok or safe to run without TLS encryption in the MP lobby. I don't think so. It means that your (hashed) lobby password can be sniffed and potentially stolen. Whether it's safe depends on how often you do it and whether there's a determined adversary trying to steal your password.
Hmm I have heard of this happening to players such as berhudar. I am using Windows 10 home, and the weird thing is that this issue suddenly started. Since it has been constant since the onset of the problem, the frequency of me not using TLS to keep playing MP would be 100%. Obviously I shouldn't do that since I don't want my pw stolen. Do you think its worth trying to re-install 0ad and the mods?
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On 29/01/2022 at 11:02 PM, maroder said:
Hey there,
You can try to disable the TLS encryption in this case. See here:
https://trac.wildfiregames.com/attachment/wiki/FAQ/lobby_tls.jpg
I have this same problem, it started 4-5 days ago. I tried disabling the TLS encryption and I got into the lobby just fine. Is it ok or safe to run without TLS encryption in the MP lobby? or is there a better way to solve this issue?
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3 hours ago, binobo said:
garrisoning of walls is one tactic I see no one use.
The main reason no one uses it is that its hard to get the troops in the right places, and also you can only garrison 8 troops up there, which means its not worth the clicks to get them up there unless you are iberians in p1.
I have previously recommended adjusting the number of positions to 20 so that it can be useful, even if there is some unit overlap (god forbid).
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8 hours ago, Fabius said:
This I concur on. the biggest culprits being Persia and Selucia since they can get extra health with the war horses tech.
And then after that comes Rome.
Perhaps a reduction in health for champion cavalry might be helpful? they already have double the health pool of a full veteran melee cavalry I don't think it would hurt to much to knock of 10%.
Melee champion cav may be non-counterable, but that does not make them OP necessarily, just frustrating to play against.
Melee champ cav do not have the same damage/cost as ranged and are less survivable. A key factor of firecav/brit chariots being OP in a25 and brit chariots being OP in a26 is their ability to pay for themselves in unit kills with only very few losses.
Personally I would welcome armor nerfs for consular bodyguard ( it seems they get more armor and more damage again like cs swordcav), as well as a moderate hp reduction and a damage buff for spearcav champions.
As for briton chariots/firecav I think fire rate of firecav should be restored to its a25 value and briton champion chariots should have their damage reduced from 36 to 30 (still 5 more than firecav, even neglecting the firecav accuracy nerf).
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29 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:50 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
I like the "stickiness" feature in AOE4 (and Rome Total War), where if cav are hit by spearmen they temporarily lose aa small amount of speed. It's more pronounced in Rome Total War, which has more realistic simulation-mechanics, but it's also there in AOE4.
Sounds like it has potential. Do we have the coding capabilities to do this, though?
I would be ok with this only if it was on a unit by unit basis (to prevent the AOE3 implementation) and I think the mechanic needs to be designed so that subsequent spear hits have less of this effect (so that the cav can eventually get away rather than being permanently stuck).
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1 hour ago, alre said:
I'm guessing 99999 m/s2 would still be hardly noticeable. let's hear for the math of @LetswaveaBook.
That would resemble a25 acceleration because the time it would take to reach walk speed would be negligible, so yes it would be noticeable.
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22 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:
Well, as a 0.2 meter advantage for a unit with a 6 meter pole arm.
This value of 0.2 meter is not an opinion, it is math.
So 0.2 meters is how far ahead the 42 ms^-2 unit gets from the 35 ms^-2 unit at steady state?
Yea a 35--> 42 increase is not much, we would probably need to go from 35--> 70+ to see a significant gameplay effect.
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7 hours ago, Feldfeld said:
For me, either no nerf, or the small damage nerf for skirm cav and archer cav only
If I understand correctly archer cav only have a small damage buff over archer infantry, while javelin cavalry get a whole +2 pierce attack. I think skirmisher cavalry should go from 18 --> 16 pierce damage because:
- people effectively use them as buffed skirm infantry, ignoring all the mobility benefits they have
- chicken rush is OP and this is javelin cavalry 95% of the time.
- javelin cav still beat spear cav in many situations (+ pierce armor is needed for spearcav anyway)
- Players who take civs such as gauls, seleucids, persians, or rome and make strong melee cav and melee cav champions always gradually mix in more and more skirm cav until they are producing almost purely skirm cav, and this is usually more effective overall than the melee/ranged mix or champions mix.
- In most TG's if the game is not decided after fighting in the 12-18 minute range, everyone usually tries to make javelin cavalry because for almost all civs javelin cavalry is the best available unit that is easy to produce in a standard game.
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I thought corrals were fine in a25 and there really was no need to limit cows to p3. With autoqueue, I think the challenge in corrals is getting the right ratio of horses to corrals, if you have a big enough steady state gain in cow numbers then you can actually be losing food, and on the opposite end, it can be very annoying to re-task horses onto corrals. I agree with @Dakara that the best solution probably is to mix farms and corrals so that there is at least some steady component to food income.
I think there is definitely gameplay benefit to having corral food eco as a viable, but non-meta, option. On one hand you have more population efficient food eco that can fight if need be, and on the other hand it can be disrupted by sudden large expenditures of food.
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3 hours ago, Fabius said:
Resources are not equal in value, metal is not available in large quantities like wood and food, and its required for a lot of important things such as phasing to third, blacksmith upgrades, siege, champions, mercs, heroes.
Games usually end before metal runs out, also there is trade for games on maps such as Corinthian isthmus.
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46 minutes ago, Fabius said:
unless you have two or three mines to work at once which would be usually out of the question unless you had massive map control or are playing a variation of gold rush.
how about mainland?
yes its common to be able to reach 2-3 metal mines with ease on mainland.
46 minutes ago, Fabius said:They are throwaway units in that they cost food and the way you used them was to get a bunch and put them on hyper aggressive in your battle line, then you left them to do their thing.
Throwing away a unit that costs 250 food? that's not how healers are used. Its very important to keep healers alive so they can reach rank 3 and become way more powerful.
46 minutes ago, Fabius said:Going back to opportunity cost, healers will rarely feature late game since why get 6 healers when you can get a ram instead which ultimately has more game ending potential.
not ultimately. It depends.
Also 6 healers cost way more than 1 ram, I don't understand why you focus on the metal price of things and ignore the other resources that make up costs.
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There is a subset of random maps and biome selections that are widely considered to be good for multiplayer. I can't remember them all off the top of my head, but so far mainland, guadalquivir river, lake, arctic summer, continent (on large). There is another map that has circular walls and players start in pockets around the outside, this one should also be played in large. There are also different Unknown map generations which you can adjust to some extent.
For a good set of MP maps:
- no places for units (in particular rams) to become stuck, in general focus on making pathfinding easy (not the same as making the map obstruction-free)
- enough wood, few "straggler trees/bushes" that prevent building placement
- variety of resource amounts, distributions, locations
- purposeful terrain generation- cliffs, mountains, and hills
- avoidance of focus on water combat (water combat is not in a good state: sadness), small water sources in places with fish to exploit could be fun.
@badosu had a great mod with a variety of MP maps, some of which were modifications from standard 0ad maps.
I should say that adding even 1 or 2 maps that challenge mainland in terms of depth of strategies, resource fairness, and general playability would be fantastic.
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15 hours ago, Feldfeld said:
he game should be balanced such that a good player wouldn't need to rely/ be forced to be in a position where randomness decides the game. AoE2 has imperfect accuracy early game, and even monk RNG which is definitely questionable and can decide some games but in the end it stays because only rarely it makes a difference (for example map RNG would be just as if not more important).
Well said! I definitely prefer the inaccuracy system aoe2 has over aoe4 which basically turns ranged units into melee units with long arms. Highly manageable rng such as accuracy system or monk conversions are good touches to the game, especially as compared to resource RNG that you are helpless to mitigate.
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WOW, I had no idea that if you select 4 blacksmiths and click all techs it will spread them out if you do it slowly. I just make my blacksmiths in a line so I can click each of them like a robot. (tbh maybe blacksmiths shouldn't be so cheap, but its for another discussion).
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17 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:
I would say it is entirely the opposite.
With 9 m/s they are slow as any melee infantry unit (though pikes are even slower).Their attack is multiplied by 1.2^2=1,44. With 10.5 damage per second their attack damage is still lower than that of skirmishers. Their durability is multiplied by 1.25^2/0.9^2=1.92 and that makes them fairly durable.
Dang, I guess I haven't played with them in a while. I don't know why I remembered them as fast.
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45 minutes ago, LienRag said:
May I ask what is unique (in the sense of useful) about them ? They're expensive, nearly useless for collecting resources/construction, and die quite quickly in combat...
They deal a lot of damage and are fast. They are quite fun to use but are not always a fantastic meatshield.
Well I believe the answer to the discussion title has turned out to be "Yes" and "yes"
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Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26
in Gameplay Discussion
Posted
I predict that the next time #3 goes up for a vote it will be shot down again, with the same vague reasons given as this time. I just want this written here so that I can quote it when it happens.