BreakfastBurrito_007
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Posts posted by BreakfastBurrito_007
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10 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:
Spear cav vs. sword cav: Spear wins with 28 HP left. (sword would win a 10 vs. 9 battle)
Spear cav. vs Javelin cav: Spear wins with 3 HP left.
Sword cav vs. Javelin cav: Javelin cav wins with 1 HP left.
It is kind of amazing how close the fights were. At least for CS swordcav, it seems only some smaller changes are necessary, like you talked about earlier. In my opinion, the spearcav should win a bit more readily against the swordcav, since swordcav are better against everything else.
What do you think about the javelin cavalry being able to beat swordcav?
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It seems like I owe some clarification. The first post I read was very suspect to me, which I hope you guys understand in retrospect. A few alarm bells went off in my head before he replied. Obviously I understand that there is no way a ransom would be paid, but it is not out of the question that someone could try to set this up.
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I think a way to nerf swordcav in general (champion, mercenary, and CS), is to reduce armor. It is obvious these things are OP, even for civs that do not have the best bonuses for them.
1. Spearcavalry are inferior in general, and should be brought to the same overall power as swordcav
2. We don’t want to make cavalry more powerful
3. swordcavalry are op across multiple categories (cs merc champ)
I think it does not make sense to give swordcav the same total damage and total resistance as spearcavalry. I think there is more differentiation between the two when swordcav have less armor and more attack than spearcav.
we can leave the high damage of swordcav, but reduce armor in the right amounts per category (merc or champ or cs). The goals of this are to: allow Spears and spearcav to more effectively counter them, and to establish a more separated role for them.
I am not sure, but in a25, do 10 swordcav beat 10 spearcav (assuming no bonuses by upgrade or hero)
If so, then it makes a lot of sense to nerf the broad category of swordcav.
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I think AoE 4 could be great.
To be honest, just adding hill bonus and proper projectile mechanics like they exist in AoE2 would be wonderful. People complain that noobs don’t want to have to learn these skills, but in my opinion it’s ok if there is room to improve in the game. If there is no room to improve, it will become boring very quickly.
Personally I liked the castle mechanics, as well as the battlefield siege construction. There is some balancing to be done of course, and also the “fighting on walls” seemed comedically broken during open beta.
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38 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:
The player going for cavalry is a more skilled player able to control his troops better.
2. The opposing side does not play optimal.
Usually it has to do with one player, not necessarily the best player, having some extra time before attacking. This is much more punishable in 1v1s, you are right, since if one player is ready to attack early, and the other is still focusing on eco, then it will be very hard to get champions then.It is also more frequent to see one-sided champion situations when teams are imbalanced, because the better team will have more time to boom before fighting.
My main concern about champion cavalry is that spearmen are not a good enough counter for them. It is true, I often go for champion cavalry after my first attack, usually because it is the safest way to spend my extra resources, because it is too easy to keep them alive. Instead of being a safe purchase, I think champions should be a more risky purchase. This means you would get them if you think they will help in the situation, not simply because they are the best unit, with consular bodyguard head and shoulders over the rest.
Have you seen peyo play mercenary cavalry with carthage in TGs? he uses them almost every time and few people see it coming.
50 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:Only if the majority of players would be able to use champion cavalry extremely effective
Keep in mind that you don't need much skill to use champion cavalry effectively on the battlefield, you just need the time and eco advantage.
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This makes a lot of sense for the CS and merc cav:
5 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:When it comes to attack, I would give the spear cav a little more (3.5 hack, 2.5 pierce and 1 second repeat time) and sword cav a little less (6 hack, 0.75 second repeat time).
I still think it makes sense to have all melee champion cavalry have reduced armor, as it is too easy to avoid losing them even if they aren't consular bodyguard.
This is why I advocated for -1 for all melee champion spear-cavalry, and -2 for consular bodyguard.
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I don't get your sense of humor. And to be honest, I had been thinking you could be a perpetrator seeking a ransom, since your profile name is "bad player" and you found the situation funny.
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@ValihrAnt what do you think about bringing swordcav in line with spearcav, with spearcav having a bit more armor but less attack? or should swordcav simply be better than spearcav as they are now?
I think this is especially necessary with champion melee cav, but also reducing all armor of melee champion cavalry would make them more balanced and make them better countered by spearmen.
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@bad player why is it funny?
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I can't believe I just realized this, but apparently in AoE4, all projectiles are 100% accurate, even to the point where an arrow can exceed maximum range if the target was in range when the arrow was fired. I thought it was a fun gameplay mechanic from AoE 2, and I can't understand why they decided to remove it, or even strike a middle ground and have only moderate inaccuracy.
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3 hours ago, Jofursloft said:
Insane op (unless they fight against many rank 2/3 spearmen), just nerf them.
I have been saying the armor should be reduced by 2 since they already have more attack than any other champion cavalry.
other champion melee cav reduced by 1 armor.
In my opinion, CS swordcav should have 1 less armor too, because they have extra attack and same armor as cs spearcav.
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3 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:
The additional cost is of course that in the 40 seconds it is researched, no units can be trained.
Kushites: The kushites have their iconic pyramids and I like to double down on that in order to distinguish the faction more from others. So I would suggest making the small pyramid available in p1, giving Kushites a boost to the economy in p1, but it needs to be strategically placedI like these in particular, because it seems the "boom" sequence for the civs is all too similar. A small pyramid could be made with starting resources and it would be interesting where to put the first one, and how long should one wait to get it?
I like the levy upgrade being in p1 as well. In p1, upgrades are a convenient way to spend extra resources when you have an imbalance, or you are housed.This keeps those resources from being wasted by not being spent immediately.
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3 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:
Also, I think we should view the entire situation and not just adjust one unit because we had bad experiences with it. The idea that only 1 unit(spear cavalry champion) is problematic seems an oversimplification to me. We need to look at the bigger picture.
I was talking about all melee champion cavalry, including consular bodyguard. It is also worth noting that I have only had good experiences with champion cavalry when I was the one using them lol. Occasionally I have been able to counter consular bodyguard by using spear infantry in front of iber javelin champions. Of the champion cavalry, consular bodyguard have the most armor/hp and the most damage of any champion melee cavalry, this is the main reason why I suggest the 2 armor reduction from bodyguard and the 1 armor reduction to spearcav champions. They will still be very powerful after this change, but players need to be smart with them, rather than just spamming them, knowing they can beat anything the enemy has (except champion spearmen, which are rarely seen).
3 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:The fact is citizen infantry can gather resources and champions can't. If you have an citizen army, and decide to replace a certain group of the army, the obvious choice seems to replace the part of your army that can't work efficient: Cavalry. I think that is part of the reason why it is so popular to replace your citizen cavalry with champion cavalry as it does not affect the work force.
Usually, people do not seek to replace part of their population (unless they need to do some "femicide" after using fertility festival), or leave some in reserve for champions. Usually, what happens is people send a CS army to go fight, and they suffer depopulation, but by that time they have a large amount of resources due to leaving around 50 men and 50 women at base, so instead of retraining into citizen soldiers, they will train champions. 100-120 units is more than enough to support a continual presence of 40+ champion cavalry, so there is not really an economic loss to training them.
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We should add back splash damage and reduce the amount of damage that ranged units do to catas. That way, it will still be possible to kill catapults from distance, but you would likely take lots of damage from splash.
attack-ground would be great to have with catapults.
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33 minutes ago, alre said:
(free corrals?)
I believe Vali said it was .5x cost. In my opinion, this is pretty reasonable.
If there is a civilisation that deserves (historically) the +20 pop bonus, it is the Han.
My concern is this being OP on top of other bonuses that Han will have over other civs.
Do we all agree that there should only be one cavalry hero for han?
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28 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:
By the way: I just tested and a consular body guard defeats a champion pikeman.
But remember consular body guard is special.
Do you mean that it should remain the way it is? or are you commenting about how powerful they are this alpha?
I don't think consular bodyguard should not have more attack and more armor than other champion cavalry. I think it already does more damage than other cavalry so it should have less armor.
38 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:On one side we have an elite fighter costing 330 resources and the other side consist of amateurs worth 100 resources. I think melee camp cav deserve to do well against them, even if slightly outnumbered. What I could agree with is that higher level spear/pikemen get a larger attack multiplier against cavalry.
4 hours ago, Angen said:versus champion cavalry, citizen soldiers would never make it to rank 3. Unless of course they fought a few times before and survived. I agree that champion cavalry should still beat citizen soldiers spearmen 1 to 1, but I think it should not be by such a wide margin as it is now. Do you think it is reasonable to drop 1 armor for both hack and pierce off of all champion melee cavalry and then 1 extra for consular bodyguard?
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13 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:
shoot over enemy melee, directly at their javelineers
Keep in mind this would need attack-ground or some other feature because otheriwise they will always move back to attacking melee units after overkilling one ranged unit.
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8 hours ago, alre said:
if you chop down enemy cc with cav, you have won anyway).
yes so the cc and fort discussion is not really what makes them op, it is what allowed them to kill the army that was there to protect the fort and cc XD.
Also, Pudim did this versus Iberians with javelin cavalry recently
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In my opinion, the best way to balance the situation would be to reduce hp and or armor to below that of spearcavalry. This would also help balance consular bodyguard. At the champion level I think a further broadside 1 armor reduction for all melee champ cavalry would be nice.
The reason for reducing armor is to decrease the amount they can beat spears.
The most telling aspect of sword cav (especially the carth merc cav) being op is that they can trade quite well with an equal size of spearmen. In my opinion, even champion melee cav should certainly lose to 25% more spearmen.
2 hours ago, chrstgtr said:the spearman only ever beat normal cav if the cav take the fight. As it stands, cav can always wiggle out of a fight if they want. And can often force a fight if they want.
I would be in favor of implementing cavalry momentum and acceleration for this reason. If the cavalry player takes a bad fight he should take a bit longer to disengage and save his cavalry. (turns at a set radius above 10 m/s, standard unit movement for speeds under 10 m/s)
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4 hours ago, alre said:
btw archers definitively deserve a buff
It is my thinking that the stats of archers and stats of pikemen are not what make them underpowered and overpowered respectively. Rather it is the ranged units tendency to shoot the closest unit rather than be able to shoot over the melee.
If we add attack-ground like we have been discussing in "proposals for formations" this would be more than enough to make archers good again and pikes less universally superior.
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The reason for having the non-champion crossbow for Han be the chu-ko-nu with approximate stats:
On 13/09/2021 at 11:29 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:same range as slingers, fire rate of .7, archer damage (or tweaked to balance), same accuracy as archers. 50 food 40 wood 10 metal, available in p2. chu-ko-nu were the spam kings, they should not be long range or high accuracy
is because: 1. Han need some kind of closer ranged unit 2. the chu-ko-nu was a very cheap kind of crossbow 3. were spammed on the battlefield 4. could potentially be a new mercenary unit for 1 or 2 civs, the persians and mauryans.
@wowgetoffyourcellphone perhaps it is easier to start with the skirmisher or slinger template, and then adjust it until it has those stats (if that is how templates work for units).
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@Dizaka I think it would be fun to add chu-ko-nu as a mercenary for a couple civs that theoretically could have contact with Han china.
About the +40% hp cav hero, even a small radius like 20m would be very unfortunate, because 20-30 champ cav can still fit inside that.
what do you think about these stats?
On 13/09/2021 at 11:29 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:chu-ko-nu: same range as slingers, fire rate of .7, archer damage (or tweaked to balance), same accuracy as archers. 50 food 40 wood 10 metal, available in p2. chu-ko-nu were the spam kings, they should not be long range or high accuracy.
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1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:
Why are you floating 20K resources ?!
In a good TG when I am rich I float 4000, but that's about it.
weirdjokes usually makes corrals, so that would explain the huge amount of food.
1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:What is the point of storehouses on control groups?
it might make it easy to get a bunch of eco upgrades as they become available. If you have a bunch of resources into p3, then you can get a bunch of eco upgrades very quickly. I think this would also help with blacksmiths.
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Oops, I thought we we were talking team bonuses, which are definitely also in need. I like all the ones that are current patches. I think it is appropriate to make these of different net economic effect. For example it is probably ok for Romans to just have +5 carrying capacity since they already give themselves that team bonus of -10% inf train time.
In the meantime I will think about some for other civs.
Are civs in a25 more unique/specific?
in General Discussion
Posted
I like this a lot, I could imagine it would help to do a building rush against another player.