BreakfastBurrito_007

I find that its not too much of a problem when you have plenty of mod hosts and plenty of vanilla hosts. I occasionally join 0ad in my morning in Pacific time and find it to be devoid of community mod hosts. I think this is because the main promoters of the mod play in my afternoon time and haven't been there in the morning to hype it up. I am thinking it would just be part of the popup message that plays just when you join 0ad lobby, so it would not be too annoying.

I think some kind of lobby message would really help expose more of the community to the mod, perhaps a short intro to the mod and a list of the top 1-5 most popular changes would make people interested enough to get it. It could be an automated message when players join the lobby.

I would say a player with better eco will usually wind up attacking more than defending. Palisades can be great for limiting ranged cavalry movement, but sadly sword cavalry can break through in a matter of seconds, hence my suggestion of adding a .3x for melee cavalry. I think another issue with walls is how finicky they are to place. I would suggest making the obstruction box smaller for resources and buildings than it is for units, or perhaps allowing walls to remove some obstructions upon completion. I think decreasing build time would make this much better, since you could decrease the number of gatherers needed to build a section, which reduces both walking idle time, worker minutes while building, as well as risk of failing to complete walls. For stone walls I think changing the number of turret positions to 16 or 20 could make that feature worthwhile.

I think stone walls--> decrease build time a lot, decrease hp a bit palisade walls--> decrease build time a lot, no hp change, melee cavalry .5x damage multiplier

I like the additional stone miners and I think it should be done for metal too. The issue is if you only have 1 metal mine your rate of metal gathering is capped, but with 2 mines you can have more than 24. Raising this level to 48, or even 36, would give players time to expand to other sources, which would make the single source mineral less disadvantageous.

Would this replace Rome's current team bonus or would they just get 2 now?

Thats a good point, expanding it to many more buildings could potentially put the bonus in a spot where it is either not noticeable, or noticeable and OP since it affects power buildings like rams/eles.

Should Persian team bonus be expanded to affect things such as: Athens' Gym, arsenals, elephant stables, maybe temples? or would this be too OP? keep in mind comparing it to ptol, iberian, roman, or other powerful team bonuses.

Sahara biome: Cretan date palm forest: 300 wood Other mixed forest: 200/100 wood Suggestion: change all forests to Cretan Date palm Reason: it creates wood imbalance between players

In a25 with merc javelin cavalry being so OP, I was at times seriously considering building some parallel stone walls next to my woodline to fight the javcav. There is no way it would have worked lol.

I think one of the biggest downsides to garrisoning walls is how few positions for units there are. I know that 8 units looks good visually, but 20 would be much more useful for gameplay purposes. Perhaps 2 rows of 8 for a total of 16 would make the most sense.

I think this looks great! Sub-classes like real-tabasco mentioned might be good if we want to have some upgrades affect more than one or all ship types. The idea of scout ship is awesome, for transporting small rushes early on or scouting. I think this would be a great first ship in p1.

The game is not this simple. It matters how you buff the melee infantry of course.

Those sound like great solutions. reducing pop from 220 to 200 would not be a great way to nerf the civ considering there are only mauryans and persians that get that bonus besides Han. I was basically just trying to summarize the problems, causes, and options and I definitely think the options you guys brought up are top contenders.

Many players are concerned about Han being OP, here are a few remaining hot points about the civ. I know some have been brought up before but this is kind of written based on how it is playing comm mod in the lobby right now (Jan 8, 2022). cs xbows: best sniping unit, easy to mass (perhaps put cs xbow in p2 in barracks, maybe change cost to 50 f 40 w 10 m) crossbow training tech: combined with other production speed bonuses, its too fast (change to something else) 220 pop is a lot for a civ that has such powerful citizen units (remove this depending on severity of xbow nerfs) cc upgrade is currently too strong (I suggest removing or decreasing hp boost and leaving arrows unchanged) divided and cheaper will to fight (tweak cost as was discussed earlier) potential buffs to improve gameplay in certain areas: come up with team bonus fix rice paddy physical size improve ministers usefulness and gameplay role with focus on situational use or opportunity cost champion building cheaper or maybe faster production rate (I haven't looked much into this, just heard from some player that its not easy to go champs as han) Tell me what you think! I hope this sort of summarizes Han gameplay issues and some possibilities for changes.

I could imagine designing imperial Rome as a fourth phase for romans, but I am not sure how badly people want to make a fully separate civ for imperial rome.

I think civilization design should be allowed generous room to follow a civ through some centuries of development, and having different versions of the same civ for different time periods decreases the flexibility of mechanic design and civ differentiation (republican and imperial rome).

I guess the value of melee damage versus ranged damage is its own problem, and that this is partially a symptom of that.

@alre I hope I can clarify: We are only comparing Han's Will-to-fight with other civs Will-to-fight. Hans is simply superior. I know that everyone would prefer to keep unique aspects of the civ, but the options are adjust/rebalance the upgrades, or revert to standard will-to-fight.

Another suggestion for Han: "Will to fight" is separated for Han, with a ranged version of the upgrade and a melee version, each with about half of the regular resource costs. Because the vast majority of general damage in the game is done by ranged units, the ranged version of will to fight is better than the melee one, and consequently better than the general "will to fight" that all other civs have. Those upgrades need to be either adjusted or merged into the standard "will to fight"

I think a good start would be eliminating the champion unlock tech for champions that come out of dedicated buildings like gymnasiums. I also agree with @chrstgtr and @real_tabasco_sauce in general about melee vs cavalry champions.

Keep in mind if we ever have some kind of moving buildings for nomadic civs, then we don't have to do it as badly as AoE4 did. I don't know if you ever saw clips of Mongol-douche, but it was extremely cheesy. Suebians sound cool, and I think including Mayans at some point should be an obvious yes.

@chrstgtr in regards to the difficulty getting rank 3 units for centurions. A few ways to do it come to mind: winning a sniping battle since your melee will survive longer, garrisoning in barracks (you only need 8), or training rank 2 from army camp. I agree there is a range between there being some planning and skill involved to get centurions and them being too hard to bother getting. I am not sure where the current system falls on that range to be honest. real tabasco actually managed to get them a few time and he seemed to find some success. I have not been playing as much since my main computer can't work with the new TLS encryption problem, but I would certainly also give them a shot as well. Han are a great civ when their crossbows can snipe, because if they take out your ranged units they can win a fight. I think a great use case for these centurions would be to focus on CS swordsmen in army mass and upgrade choices, and as they try to snipe your ranged units your swords would live long enough to reach rank 3, upgrade to centurions and then sway the fight from there. Rome also has a +1 armor hero that can help melee infantry live long enough to reach rank 3. @real_tabasco_sauce I would recommend adding an xp trickle to units garrisoned in the roman army camp, equal to barracks rate.