chrstgtr

Just a suggestion that maybe that OP should list what changes were made to each version of the mod. Something like the below. This will allow players to see what actually changes and help determine whether a change is actually desirable. Changes Made 0.26.1 Fixed Han field upgrades by... 0.26.2 [Fill]

Or revert to old system with longer build times. Ptol plays the same as every other civ except it is easier. There is zero trade off, which makes it broken.

@wraitii I think the explanation above seems possible. Rams don’t seem overall quicker or slower to me. I have noticed, on occasion, that rams do very slow zigs and zags through obstacles, though It’s still the early days on the alpha, but. aside from Han, nothing stands out as major being a major change or huge imbalance. I’m sure we’ll notice stuff as time goes on, but I’m starting to feel more comfortable with overall balance, which means we should (hopefully) be able to implement more new features/bigger changes soon. It would also be nice if in the next alpha we cleaned up some of the other lingering problems that we know exist but haven’t been addressed yet (I.e. making heroes more balanced across civs, making wonders useful, etc). Overall, this feels like a boring (but needed) update for most old civs, a decent facelift for Persians (credit to @borg_ there) and, of course, a huge update with Han.

I’m not sure how I would feel. My main concern would be siege, which could always be carved out. I don’t think it would hugely change the game because I doubt people wait for reinforcement units to bunch up and be put into formation

Can it be downloaded within the game? Some mods got that in a23 and that really helped adoption another big problem is that people want to download mods, but don’t know where. Players with link the mod in MP chat/lobby, but there is no link feature that allows players to copy text. As a result, players see a 100 character link and give up. A /link command, like autociv has, would help get over this hurdle

Related, one of the biggest problems with moving with formations is that the units move at the speed of the slowest unit in the formation. Maybe it would make sense to change that to the speed of the fastest unit in formation.

Yeah, heroes are super imbalanced across civs. Some civs have 3 great heroes. Some civs none. with that said, formation hero is the best in game if used correctly.

you should always have a hero. They’re stronger than normal unit and don’t count against pop limits. Separately, I think heroes should all be radius based. Formations apply to a potentially unlimited number of units while at the same time being potentially under inclusive of units walking directly through a “formation.” They require players to engage in an annoying “tap formation” button mashing in order to derive the hero benefit. formations should be good on their own, and not good because of something else.

Little off topic, but with the known (and long-standing) problems with formations, it probably makes sense to just change the hero bonus to a range like all the other proximity based bonuses

Pretty huge oversight that we missed during testing: Han farm upgrades only work for p2.

Icons option exists.

See OP. It already exists.

To each their own. But see OP. The new mini-icons can be turned off. For me, it's mostly a problem with houses, storehouses, and farmhouses. I often place houses close to my wood line and it is easy to forget where each is. Farmhouses are often placed wherever berries are, which is easy to forget after the berries are exhausted. It is good to know where you don't have to build a new farmhouse. Farmhouses are easily recognized from one angle, but not from all angles. Regardless, I feel like good art design requires differentiation (while staying within a theme ofc). Even if I do get used to it, I think it would be good to make it easier for newbies.

Creating a post so we can get a26 feedback. Running list of issue: The minimap is really busy now. I used to be able to easily discern what was occurring on the other side of the map, but now I have no clue because the map feels so busy. For anyone else who felt this way--it can be undone in Options-->Game Session-->Minimap Icons-->unchecked Han buildings all look really similar. Maybe this improves as we get more used to playing Han, but right now everything looks the same Han farm upgrades do not work for p1 and p3

Awesome. I just thought the initial language could turn off some new players.

Just a suggestion I thought of as I went to download the newest alpha. The developmental language suggests that the game is still very raw, which will be a turn-off for a lot of potential new players. Maybe change the language to something like the below. Attention! This is a developmental version of the game so some bugs, such as lag when many units are moving and processing problems with very large maps, may exist. The game is regularly updated to address these and other concerns.

Friendly reminder that AutoCiv mod has a mute function.

You guys are talking past each other. @BreakfastBurrito_007 had a problem with % increases because a higher base dmg will benefit more from a percent-based system. Here, you are discussing an addition based system, which comparatively favors lower base dmg units. Armor % increases offset attack % increases. Without armor increases % based attack bonuses can lead to large differences. These numbers are simplified, but they show the effect discussed. Imagine two units with 100 health and no armor. Unit A deals 50 dmg. Unit B deal 33.3 dmg. With no upgrades unit A kills in 2 hits while and unit B kills in 3 hits. In other words, unit A kills 50% faster. But with a 100% attack upgrade, unit A kills in one hit while while unit B kills in 2 hits. In other words, with upgrades, unit A is kills 100% faster. Now, imagine both units have armor/health upgrades that doubles their increase resistance. With all upgrades, unit A again kills in 2 hits while unit B kills in 3 hits. In other words, armor entirely offsets the attack upgrades and unit A, again, kills just 50% fast. Regardless, even the proposer, here, seems to have moved on, so this potential change is moot.

Yeah, I think that experience will show how receptive everyone will be to all these other changes... I haven't looked at the UX. From what you posted, it looks fine. I will probably be ok with anything after a little while, though.

I would want something simple and flexible. What you proposed seems a bit complicated. I would rather all your effort to be put into adding individual units (i.e., make axe cav truly unique and not just a watered down version of sword cav; or maybe making a new fire archer unit that is weak against units but strong against buildings). Some tradeoff techs may be desirable, but I, personally, prefer those to be limited in nature (i.e., how you get to chose which type of sele champs to make). Some of what you propose could be fit into my personal ideal in another form but remembering 10 individual techs sounds really tough to learn. I don't like things that aren't easily understood. For example, I would not want to change projectile velocity because it is so difficult to understand how that impacts the game. All in all, I think you have some good ideas here, but I am not sure about the current form.

My point the entire time.

Honestly, all of this feels really complicated to me. It is a lot of changes to new balancing system (a26) that isn’t fully understood yet because it hasn’t been fully played in. I would also be concerned that this would introduce so many new variables that it would be difficult to discern the impact of any specific variable. In short, discussion feels like too much, too soon.

That’s only true if no armor or health upgrades are taken to offset the attack dmg. To be honest, this is really just a problem of units dying to quickly in late game, which leads to spam fights. I think the easiest way to fix this is to undo another of the a24 changes: health phases bonuses. Reinstating health phase bonuses would also offer the pure importance of forge upgrades and make phasing more important.

it's one unit gaining a balance against one class of units. that unit is also rarely used in fights and is only available in late game. It's effect will be very, very limited.

Should be changed. But, honestly, it'll have very little effect since players rarely engage in fights with heros