drsingh

I would like to make some suggestions for Mauryan heroes. Bindusara should be the third hero. Ashok can be split into 2 versions of the king. Like i mentioned here before- Porus or Dhana Nanda could be considered as additional heroes, but less info is available about them to help decide bonuses. Dhana Nanda was the last Nanda ruler with a big empire, and powerful military that scared alexander's soldiers. He was later overthrown by Chandragupta Maurya under guidance of Chanakya(he was humiliated in court). Chandragupta Maurya is speculated to be grandson of one of Nanda's cousins. They had same territories, and culture is same. Only difference is name of dynasty- Nanda from Maurya because of name of founder. Dhana Nanda could be connecting link in a Campaign starting from Macedonia to End of Ashoka's conquest into pacifism.

Hi, I recently got around to trying svn a24 and git de. I'll post some of the bugs I found while trying a game with mauryas. You might already know about them. 1) Outpost stats remain same even after upgrade to stone version. 2) Gathering rates shown in tech tree and in-game are different. Even before doing any upgrades. 3) Mercenaries don't get XP. Is this intended. 4) Chanakya cant garrison in blacksmith but soldier can. (Also the first tech of blacksmith is not much of an option when you can make multiple blacksmiths for faster research.) 5) Only ranged units count for arrows in CC or Tower or wall towers. But mele infantry can enable arrows from outpost. 6) Only 10% farmland bonus instead of 100%. I looked at gather rate display of citizen while standing on top of it. 7) Catapults built on battlefield by soldiers can pack and move. If this is intended, then let them be trainable in siege workshop. 8) Decrease taxation didnt have the intended effect I think. It didnt affect market vendors. Or traders. 9) I didnt understand how glory is gathered. Apart from praying and trickle from statue. All units have a 0.2 gather rate for glory. It slowly tickles in the start of game even when I'm idle. What other sources are there apart from killing and 2 mentioned above. 10) Archer units only get hp and armor from promotions. All mele troops get damage increase. They should also get a divided benefit to attack and range. Otherwise scale badly lategame. Also in svn a24 units garrisoned in barracks slowly gain xp. Since production buildings have been separated, it would be nice to enable it for archery range and both stables. 11) During game when i researched the advance rank upgrade for archers at city phase. All of my rank 1 archers got upgraded to rank 3. While rank 2 archers remained same. All of the rank 1 archers had atleast 50% xp from combat. Also could be due to xp requirement reduction of archery tradition. Any new archers trained after that, trained as rank 2, as intended. 12) Description of archery tradition is different in tech tree and in game from the civilization overview panel. Elephant round-up doesnt work. 13) Wild elephants seem broken. Woodcutters keep randomly getting killed when they are around, even unprovoked. And scout cavalry which costs 100 food cant hunt them properly. 1 or 2 always die even when is send 5-7 of them. I feel scout cavalry should get a bonus against all wild aggressive animals (could include dog). Also either trample of wild elephant removed or made to activate only when it loses atleast a single hp. 14) Currently heal on garrison is only enabled in CC, storehouse, farmstead, corral and elephant stables apart from temples. It is counter intuitive, since some economy or military buildings have it others dont. Also since mele soldiers dont count for arrows in fortress or towers, and dont get healed, there is no point for them to have garrison function. 15) Bamboo long bows give a 10 wood bonus gain from producing each poison maiden archer. Cavalry sabre adds 5 metal to cost. But doesnt improve attack of scout and sword cavalry. 16) Indian war elephant costs 200food 200 coin. while seleucid armored elephant having same stats costs 200 food 200 metal. both civ have "tusk spikes" which is supposed to add 10% metal cost. Couldnt test what happens for mauryans since I couldnt reach empire phase. Seleucid champion chariot archer dosent have the added 75 coin cost of mauryan champion chariot archer. though it has less attack 25 compared to 35 of mauryan counterpart. But It fails in comparison to its own archer infatntry(from phase 1) in terms of dps. 25 for 4 pop compared to 15 for 2 pop . 17) Not exactly a bug. The visual actors of slaves for mauryas look better clothed than the citizens. Lower caste women were not allowed to cover their torso in the past at some places. Though caste system was not rigid and this bad at the time of mauryas, and slavery also was not prevalent, according to my knowledge. If you really want to keep this mechanic, you can switch some actors from citizen to slaves. And citizens have additional props like arm bands, jewelry etc. Conversely, I would like to have different systems for different civ for better diversity. Those civ which have slaves can have a lower limit on allowed citizens, and less gathering rate upgrades. Making them use slaves and depend more on taxation to recover the coin. The civ which dont have slaves can have higher limit to trainable citizens. And more gathering rate upgrades available to research. Some specific civ like sparta can keep current system of 0ad- male citizen good in combat, female citizen giving an aura boost and better in gathering some resources. Male citizens could be called to arms with an upgrade switch, if a barracks is built already. costing some metal and becoming a version of their mele infantry stat vise but being a different entity. So that they can be converted back to being gatherers with an upgrade button, costing some resources or not, depending on testing. (Similar to how maurya poson maiden archer and swordwomen change) Thats all I can remember right now. There were some tech choices, where i felt one of them was unviable as compared to other one. But I need to see more. And will post later after playing more. Also I feel there should be a limit to how many trickle buildings you can make per CC. So as to not allow completely passive play without needing to expand and gain territory. The corral, market, and market vendors limit should be tied to number of CC. that might need enabling additional cc at phase 2. Then you can have traders go between 2 CC instead of 2 markets(some other mod achieved this already), giving a feeling of actual trade between 2 towns. Like this the traders could be more susceptible to raiding. And having an ally in team games will help to setup trade early. Slaves training from resource drop sites feels a bit weird. Having them train from Markets and only 1 market per CC. Will give an upper limit to economy growth rate. Additional CC will help boom faster. Also I'm of opinion that Economy units like slaves or citizens shouldn't train in batches. It doesnt matter much, if after a raid the enemy can recover his lost units very quickly. In the end I would like to say that this mod has much better experience playing as compared to vanilla. Thanks for making it.

Does this mod work with a24 svn version? And is it still being developed??

Hi, It's been some time since I last played 0ad. I would love to try it again, and also see the improvements in DE. But I need some help. If someone could guide me on, how to compile and install the svn development version of AD and GitHub version of DE. Or point me in the right direction, if this is described somewhere. Thanks

1... Yes . For more aggreageted forests. But still maintain some few single trees spread about to give more natural environment. + Single trees should get wiped out when placing building foundations. Also similar thing needs to be done with huntable animals. They should spawn in groups. And move in herd, when anyone is attacked. 2... I'd say 3. Since there are a lot of trees. There's no need to have more than that to get clumped on a single tree. Also many times at the edge of the map or edge of forest, the gatherers get idled waiting in line. since there is space for only one or two gatherers around it. The more spread about gatherers will chop through individual trees slower and the gathering speed (depending on drop distance) remains fairly constant for longer time. 3. I'm not sure what this means. Is it same as 1? 4. No. Should put this off till very late. Try with other changes first. Since this might not be needed. More wood will mean gatherers can be kept in a defensive location for much longer period. And to balance if the number of trees is decreased on the map, then the game environment will lose its current natural appeal and would appear plastic. 5. No. not needed. Doesnt make sense. And creates problems with carrying capacity upgrades. Only place where a different carrying capacity is suited is for cavalry while carrying meat from hunts.

This was to make players having option to build barracks to allow defense in phase 1. or being greedy with faster and boomy age up but vulnerable to enemy rush. Also since military is being trained from barracks, it would make sense citizens get arms and armor from the same building. Also rightfully make the citizens out in open be vulnerable. This would require barracks shifted in phase 1 with atleast 2 soldiers being trained. This is not that important requirement if you feel it changes your design too much. Can just make them get more expensive the more you make too. This will be similar to the limit. Only there would be a soft limit. Why I'm against it is because- The traders going between markets or CC. Are always more defensible than miners outside the territory. Also traders are infinite source. So they should be less efficient in gathering, to balance. If you only add hard or soft limits without addressing the above issue. Their would only be one build order- Build max number of traders as soon as possible. and focus on outlying mines later only if necessary. While adjusting efficiency only without any limits. Gives player option to transition to traders early or late depending on whether he is going for a long term plan or early play. And allows enough infinite source of economy to make a smooth late game experience after natural resources run out. While maintaining the superiority and importance to secure natural resources in early and mid game. Edit- I can only help with xml or json stuff currently. Some of the major JS and C++ changes could maybe wait till it gets incorporated in the main game. And a workaround can be used to showcase or test the feature, where possible. But ofcourse any effort made would be useless if the mod doesnt get more visibilty. and gets played by most people in lobby, to test and refine.

i think he was exaggerating a bit. but you get how champions make all other units redundant..

I assume you are talking about Champion units. This is less because of the inflated stats. and more because of the armor. They take very less percentage of damage as compared to normal units. It needs to be rectified by limiting the increase in stats to about 30%/40% increase and only 2 point increase in armor.

If you want I can help you. In implementing the gameplay design mentioned here in Delenda Mod, or a seperate gameplay mod. The changes after testing could be adopted directly in the next alpha, as a whole. Instead of a small patch at a time. But need confirmation from developers to allow including it with the next release. Or a download link in the Multiplayer lobby, for more visibilty. Some slight variation if you want to consider- 1) More role of XP- 25% more xp gain in own territory. Xp gain with each hit instead of kill. Double or triple xp gain from attacking enemy support units. 2) Barracks being a requirement for arming citizens into militia. 3) Instead of limiting number of traders. Changing their efficiency. For allowing more variations in build orders. 4) The 3rd upgrade of citizen soldiers through Xp- 'Elite'. be closer in stats to champion units. To promote players to take care of their units and make them survive.

What are mercenary? In any strategy game mercenary units are special units accessible from a special restricted building (capturable from map or build limit). The units are special in that, they are either stronger than normal units OR have very low train time OR dont cost any pop. But in each case they are more expensive. In current game Mercenary could either be made to be trainable only from special capturable mercenary training camps with added bonus of much faster train time. Or just make them to be training as lvl2 directly. And additionaly all lvl2 troops build capacity can be removed. So while they can gather at a very slow rate, they wont build. Heroes could work better if allowed with reduced stats from phase 1.

Did you try the mod? The male citizens in it have stats similar to what you have provided

Defensive structures like Tower and fortress shouldnt be capturable. They always had secret entrances, so that enemy cant enter them. The enemy had only option to siege down these fortifiactions. the other civil buildings can ofcourse be capturable. But there should be a timer set after capturing, which needs to be completed before deleting is allowed. This to make sure capturing doesnt become an easy hack to replace sieging. And a group of cav without siege potential cant just go about deleting enemy houses in the first 5-7 mins of games. With this there would be proper sieging of fortress, towers and walls. After which CC will be targeted for capturing, and after being captured should give you the complete city in the territory. The timer will be a safeguard against capturing of random buildings like houses, and allow for garrison feature be removed from them. Garrisonable buildings need to be restricted to make support units more vulnerable.

Corrals are broken because they are extremely effective. Players soon get multiple thousands of food in their bank. So food ceases to become a resource. And everything which costs food is free. With bartering at market, it outperforms even Traders. There shouldnt be 2 infinite sources of single resource. Because it just means one of them is redundant feature. Being an alternate source which is micro intense is not a good arguement. There are less people playing right now so it may seem just doing fields works against a guy doing corrals. But it would not in more intense competitive seen. The more skilled players with higher apm will always only use corrals, and not build a single farm. And the lower skilled casual players will always build only farms and not bother with corrals. There wont be an option here. Good players will be forced to use corrals to not auto-lose. And Corral is just a time consuming mundane mechanic, the kind which takes the fun away. Even those guys who can macro it, dont enjoy it. Garrisoning animals is to give it a strategic option. Assuming that first herdables are made to have faster gather rates than hunts. After finding a random sheep/goat. A player has an option to either garrison it in corral for a slow trickle. Or eat it up quickly for a fast but limited spike. Both these options would seem favourable in different situations. Also the additional build limit to sheep from corral will make it a finite resource so theres no conflict with farms. Posted in wrong thread

I would suggest keep a single type of farm. And different gathering rates depending on the location. Lesser near CC and bonus on farmlands. The total of 3 values are easier to understand and exploit by a skilled player. With a gradual difference in gathering rate made possible by mimo's patch. It becomes near impossible for even best of players to assess their economy. Also keep all infinite sources- to not require micro. So players can focus more on battle in late game. With staying on top of units to make them fight their counters with no over kill.

Regarding other forks in discussion in this thread... Berries seem fine imo. But I agree the fruit trees are alway confusing. Maybe a change in graphic could make them easy to spot. About cavalry being trainable from CC. I'm of the opinion that no military unit should be trainable from CC. Since CC is the main source of eco units. A player wanting to go for early aggression should have to a build a separate structure for military. Anyways merging eco and mlititary buildings make gameplay too convenient. the player never has to decide between investing in one of the above. Every decision which we remove from player, it makes game more casual and lose strategic depth. The same goes for having a single building for both infantry and cavalry. Citizen soldiers- again :). The current implementation is ofcourse not good for competitive gaming. But as you can see in my mod. A change in implementation is going to solve the problem. All you need to do is make sure soldiers like cav dont outperform a specialised food gatherer(woman) in food gathering. Soldiers who are meant to battle should be more profitable fighting than gathering. Being realistic- in those days no king would keep his soldiers gathering if there was a war to be fought. And would gather only when fighting was not required. But due to mechanics in the game currently. It is more efficient to just keep gathering and let the enemy come to you. Except some naked, commando or jav cav rushes. The citizen soldiers should never be best at gathering any resource. There should be a 2nd eco unit which can replace them for stone and metal gathering. Just increasing the train time, or make corral being a requirement is not going to cut it to balance cav. Lastly, even if it is still alpha, the player base is still important. Since it has accumulated slowly over time. And has started getting the game more attention recently. Which will be good for the future of the game. The game is quite playable already. Currently a gameplay mod with smaller changes will cause a sudden burst in players, if it makes for a better in-game experience. And with the increased popularity a second kickstarter campaign or something similar can be done. Will get a better response if players like what they see. And the remaining development will be completed much faster. Trying to completely rework the basic mechanics of the game- if alienates the players and many of them drop off. It will delay the development cycle and it will be apparent very late that the changes done made it better or not.

This is not the same as the female aura. With female aura its easier to assess since there are only 2 values. But here you want there to be a gradual change in the gathering rate of the farms. which the player has no way to assess. After a raid if the farms degenerate. How will the player know if he needs to put more people on farms to continue producing batches from 2 buildings(example) or not.. The player macro becomes random. This is where we should stop while pursuing realism. having said that, I liked the first change making farms capturable. It doesnt make sense seeing army attack a field. Also its loot bonus should be removed. I have implemented this part in Improvement mod. Corrals are broken because they are extremely effective. Players soon get multiple thousands of food in their bank. So food ceases to become a resource. And everything which costs food is free. With bartering at market, it outperforms even Traders. There shouldnt be 2 infinite sources of single resource. Because it just means one of them is redundant feature. Being an alternate source which is micro intense is not a good arguement. There are less people playing right now so it may seem just doing fields works against a guy doing corrals. But it would not in more intense competitive seen. The more skilled players with higher apm will always only use corrals, and not build a single farm. And the lower skilled casual players will always build only farms and not bother with corrals. There wont be an option here. Good players will be forced to use corrals to not auto-lose. And Corral is just a time consuming mundane mechanic, the kind which takes the fun away. Even those guys who can macro it, dont enjoy it. Garrisoning animals is to give it a strategic option. Assuming that first herdables are made to have faster gather rates than hunts. After finding a random sheep/goat. A player has an option to either garrison it in corral for a slow trickle. Or eat it up quickly for a fast but limited spike. Both these options would seem favourable in different situations. Also the additional build limit to sheep from corral will make it a finite resource so theres no conflict with farms.

Improvement Mod {yeah, couldnt think of a name...} (A mod aimed to reorganise the existing assets to provide a much better game experience. It includes game design and balance improvements.) I have created a mod based on the design I had suggested. As a proof of concept. Currently only one civ is working- Mauryans. And AI wouldnt use the features well. So its meant to be played on multiplayer- Mauryans vs Mauryans. In the beginning I'll focus on I) Improving gameplay, balancing diff strategies(Rush, Boom, Turtle) and units. Getting all the required features. Once that part is taken care of- II) Getting compatibility for all civs. Balancing between civs, and differentiating them. There have been done lot of changes. Since its the first version- many specifics could need rebalancing. I am open to all suggestions and opinions. But I request that you play atleast 10 games on it before forming an opinion, to get the hang of things. Modified Game design- (Red marks what is missing currently, Blue are temporary solutions) Dock and siege weapons have not been touched yet. I need help from the community regarding- 1) Implementation of Trader changes. 2) UI changes 3) Farmland bonus (native) 4) Exp gain bonus in territory 5) Better implementations of Upgrade mechanic, and house limits. 6) Play testing Note- Corral only garrisons animals if you Ctrl Rt click on it to make itself the destination. Once the animal spawns it cant garrison back. Apart from that Corral changes are fully functioning. To Upgrade units stand them as close to Barracks or stable as possible. It doesnt show, but under the effect of aura - the 1000 sec train time becomes 10 sec. Farm and corral are capturable in neutral territory. to make it preferable to destroying it. This is my first attempt at modding. But due the excellent layout of game it became very easy. I've been working on this straight for 2 days. Since I am leaving home tomorrow. And It'll be few months before I get back on it. Acknowledgements- Wildfire Games- For creating a wonderful game. Making it easily moddable. And the prompt replies when i asked for help. wowgetoffyourcellphone- For creating Delenda Est. Which I liked a lot and adopted some ideas from. Civic space and Corral aura have been modified from DE. improvement.zip

{ "value": "BuildRestrictions/Category", "replace": HouseT, "affects": "House" } Alright this type of code also doesn't work. But would be good to implement in future. Thanks for help.

Has this been tried.. I tried using the modification- { "value": "EntityLimits/Limits/House", "add": 8, "affects": "Player" } but to no effect. Also tried variations with trying to use- Limitchangers. Is there a way to implement this ?

Thanks.. That page is very helpful. I got most of the stuff worked out. But I have run into a problem trying to add a tech eg phase_town as a Limit changer. There was only example of it being used as limit remover. Also I want to know how to add a way to count the number of CC owned by a player. To use it as Limit changer.

where is it in 21? I only want to add a herd subtype to food

did the path change again? I cant find the resource under data.

thanks!! I found it

How can I modify which building becomes available in which phase. And build limits for the building. Also is it possible to limit a building according to number of Civic centre?

Edit- Yes you are right. I tried again with the same installation file which worked before. After 3 failed attempts installing on another drive which had 9 gb free. I tried clearing up space on C drive and it worked.