Nescio

@Imarok or @stanislas69, could you move this entire thread into the game development sub-forum and rename it to “structure specific name review”?

@Anaxandridas ho Skandiates Thank you, that's helpful, I'll have a critical look at it later. For the archery range, perhaps try “practice field” or something similar? Also, ptol and sele wonders? @Itms Could you check the Mauryan specific names, correcting where necessary, and find appropiate strings for the Mauryan archery range, cavalry stables, siege workshop, and wonder? Also, Persians? (Old Persian, not Farsi.)

Maybe it's better to have two separate topics, one for structures and one for units. Great!

@Doktoreus Thanks again! @Sundiata The other Kushite unit specific names are correct? @Genava55 Do you happen to have a list with corrections and suggestions for the Briton and Gaulish specific unit names? @stanislas69 Could you move these three posts (starting with 367549, the one with the txt file) into a new “unit specific name review” thread?

That suggests the Proto-Indo-Europeans may not have had a word for a sling. (PIE doesn't have a word for chicken either; that animal didn't exist in that area back then.) But if PIE didn't have a sling, it doesn't make much sense to use PIE to reconstruct an unattested Gaulish form. Yes, I fully agree. The purpose of this discussion is to improve and differentiate these factions. Perhaps town phase is better, because: i. Gauls were famous for their cavalry; ii. Gauls don't have a village phase horsemen; iii. two melee cavalry champions in the city phase probably makes them be viewed less unique. Don't worry about that, that's something for the artists to decide upon later. Right now you should simply focus on an interesting and accurate roster proposal. I asked because I associate France with cattle and Great Britain with sheep; the sling is primarily a goat- and shepherd's weapon; therefore I guessed slingers might be more common for Britons than Gauls. (But I know next to nothing about Celts.) Caesar mentioned the Gauls had a nobility class, who were skilled warriors and provided the military leaders, but also a large subject serf population, who could be called to arms in times of migration or war. Do you think it's likely the latter could have afforded swords and would have used them in combat?

Thanks for pointing that out, I was unaware of that. Feast-center means Tavern and Tower means Wall Tower? In that case, the following appear to be missing: outpost, sentry tower, defence tower, archery range, cavalry stable, siege workshop, and dog kennel. If I understand correctly, the names in the second column are currently used in 0 A.D., which you propose to change into those listed in the third column. Which language(s) are you using? @Itms What's 0 A.D.'s policy on unattested, reconstructed forms? And whom can I contact for the Carthaginian, Iberian, and Mauryan specific names? @stanislas69 Could you split off the post starting with the one containing the txt file (#367473) to form a new “Specific names review” thread?

Anyway, for the transliteration of Greek, we should discuss and decide upon the following points: Do we want to distinguish between ᾰ, ῐ, ῠ and ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ? (Dictionaries do, text editions don't.) What to do with the iota subscriptum (ὑπογεγραμμένη): ᾳ, ῃ, ῳ? E.g. Θρᾴκη (Thrace) As for the transliteration of η, ω: classicists prefer not to transliterate Greek, because they assume everyone can read it fluently linguists prefer ę, ǫ historians prefer ê, ô Wikipedia prefers ē, ō As for the transliteration of υ and ευ, either u and eu, or y and ey in German and Latin, y represents a sound similar to Greek υ, but u is quite different in English and French, u represents a sound similar to Greek υ, but y is quite different ρ: r or rh? ξ → x, ψ → ps? β, π, φ → b, p, ph; γ, κ, χ →g, k, kh; δ, τ, θ → d, t, th; no objections? Personally I'd recommend ę/ǫ for η/ω, because ê/ô causes problems with accents, and ē/ō suggests η/ω were simply longer versions of ε/ο, which is not true for Classical Greek, while ę/ǫ makes it clear they're different sounds. Also, I think transcriibing ρ as simply r is fine.

Not exactly true. A grapheme is the smallest possible unit in a writing system, e.g. a word in a logographic system, a syllable in a syllabary, and a letter in an alphabet (e.g. Greek). αυ /au̯/ and ευ /eu̯/ were diphthongs (“double sound”), a single syllable consisting of two vowels pronounced together (cf. “cowboy” /ˈkaʊˌbɔɪ/); in contrast, ει /eː/ and ου /oː/ had become monophthongs (“single sound”) in Classical Greek (cf. “voodoo” /ˈvuːduː/). However, none of these has a single character, all are written by two separate letters, thus two graphemes. In contrast, ᾳ, ῃ, and ῳ (initially diphthongs, later monophthongs) are single graphemes (as are e.g. å, æ=ä, ø=ö, and ü). Although pronunciation matters for one type of transcription (how to convert sounds into signs), it is unimportant for the other type (how to convert one writing system into another).

Thanks! D1750

Great, that's exactly what I wanted! If a value is not specified in the template itself, it inherits it from its parent (specified in line 2); that's how XML works (and why it's useful). This is one of the reasons why having this list is useful. (Those three structures were added relatively recently, long after the others, and are not yet used in game. However, they should get specific names.) When ready, use the @[user name] tag in your post to ensure we (@Itms and @Nescio) are automatically notified. Could you have a look at the file and post what the specific names for the Greek factions should be? Please write polytonic Greek. The proper transliteration could be decided later. Also, any suggestions for the Archery Range, Stable, and Workshop? @Genava55 and @GunChleoc, could you do that for the Briton and Gaulish specific names? @Sundiata, could you check the Kushite specific names?

Pl. Ps. 1.2.15: neque Aléxandrina beluata tonsilia tappetia Yes, Plautus wrote comedies around c. 200 BC; twenty have survived, which is more than all other Greek and Roman comedies combined (Aristophanes 11, Menander 1, Terence 6). His works are also the oldest Latin texts of serious length, and his spelling is more archaic than the classical Latin of the 1st C BC and 1st C AD. Roman comedy is a bit of an acquired taste, very vulgar with little to no plot; they were very popular in the Renaissance (some Shakespearean comedies are indirectly based on Plautus). Nowadays people prefer the Athenian Old Comedy of Aristophanes, which also has numerous vulgar parts, but also includes satire, social citicisms, and controversial themes, which makes his plays quite modern in our eyes.

Since you're asking: Hom. Il. 10.156: αὐτὰρ ὑπὸ κράτεσφι τάπης τετάνυστο φαεινός. The word you're looking for is ὁ τάπης: carpet, rug, spread on seats and beds; Attic variants are ἡ τάπις and ἡ δάπις. The word is possibly of Iranian origin. The diminutive is τό τᾰπήτιον, other derivatives include ὁ τᾰπητάριος (carpet-weaver or carpet-merchant), ὁ τᾰπητέμπορος (carpet-merchant), ὁ τᾰπῐδῠφάντης (carpet-weaver), τά τᾰπῐδῠφαντικά (proceeds of tax on carpet-weavers), and ὁ τᾰπῐδύφος (carpet-weaver). Ὁ τάπης entered Latin as tapēs, from which it entered modern European languages (e.g. English tapestry), either directly or via French. Hom. Od. 10.352-3: τάων ἡ μὲν ἔβαλλε θρόνοις ἔνι ῥήγεα καλὰ πορφύρεα καθύπερθ᾽, ὑπένερθε δὲ λῖθ᾽ ὑπέβαλλεν The word in question is τό ῥῆγος: rug, blanket, used as a covering of a bed or of a seat, and made from wool (τό λίνον (related to English linen) is the word for anything made out of flax). Xen. Anab. 7.3.18: τούτους μὲν οὖν οὕτως ἔπειθεν. αὖθις δὲ Τιμασίωνι τῷ Δαρδανεῖ προσελθών, ἐπεὶ ἤκουσεν αὐτῷ εἶναι καὶ ἐκπώματα καὶ τάπιδας βαρβαρικάς, ἔλεγεν ὅτι νομίζοιτο ὁπότε ἐπὶ δεῖπνον καλέσαι Σεύθης δωρεῖσθαι αὐτῷ τοὺς κληθέντας. οὗτος δ᾽ ἢν μέγας ἐνθάδε γένηται, ἱκανὸς ἔσται σε καὶ οἴκαδε καταγαγεῖν καὶ ἐνθάδε πλούσιον ποιῆσαι. τοιαῦτα προυμνᾶτο ἑκάστῳ προσιών. Again ὁ τάπης. Xen. Anab. 7.3.27: ἄλλος παῖδα εἰσάγων οὕτως ἐδωρήσατο προπίνων, καὶ ἄλλος ἱμάτια τῇ γυναικί. καὶ Τιμασίων προπίνων ἐδωρήσατο φιάλην τε ἀργυρᾶν καὶ τάπιδα ἀξίαν δέκα μνῶν. Again ὁ τάπης. Diogenes Laertius V.72: [...] καὶ τῇ γυναικὶ αὐτοῦ Ῥοδιακῶν ζεῦγος, ψιλοτάπιδα, ἀμφίταπιν, περίστρωμα, προσκεφάλαια δύο τὰ βέλτιστα τῶν καταλειπομένων [...] Here the words are ἡ ψῑλί-τᾰπις: a smooth carpet, a carpet without pile; ὁ ἀμφι-τάπης: rug or carpet with pile on both sides; and τό περί-στρωμα: covering of a bed.

Thank you for the clarification. Basically: Greek → *PIE → *Celtic → *Gaulish. (An asterisk denotes a reconstructed form.) I don't know what 0 A.D.'s policy on unattested things is, though. Comparative linguistics is not necessarily difficult, it uses rigid logic, and therefore they are often right. However, it is always possible the Gauls used a word borrowed from a different language, instead of the reconstructed form. Thanks! So the Gauls have no cavalry unit in the village phase? It might be better to merge the two city-phase cavalry units into a single champion cavalry lancer. Is there any specific reason why the Gauls have a slinger in the village phase and the Britons in the town phase, and not the other way around? Also, do you happen to know how common swords were compared to spears? Nice catch! (Interestingly that two-handed weapon is described as a sabre, not a sword.) By the way, “the linen coming from the trees” is cotton, a material alien to the Greeks.

The purpose of transliteration is to be precise. Transliteration has to be a bijection: if Ζεύς is transliterated Zeús, then υ has to be an u everywhere else as well, and not an y if e and o represent ε and ο, then η and ω shouldn't be written as e and o (ē/ê/ę and ō/ô/ǫ are fine) Accents matter: ὧς and ὡς (Hom ὥς) are two different words Be consistent: φ, χ, θ are the aspirated versions of π, κ, τ, so if κ is transliterated c, then χ ought to be ch, and if κ is transcribed k, then χ ought to be kh

Many thanks for pointing that out; it turns out I can ignore the AI files, all I need is only edit simulation/helpers/InitGame.js lines 44 to 48: // Sandbox, Very Easy, Easy, Medium, Hard, Very Hard // rate apply on resource stockpiling as gathering and trading // time apply on building, upgrading, packing, training and technologies let rate = [ 0.42, 0.56, 0.75, 1.00, 1.25, 1.56 ]; let time = [ 1.40, 1.25, 1.10, 1.00, 1.00, 1.00 ];

Don't make yourself look childish. You want others to change something, your claim is challenged, and Andrettin politely asked for more information. The burden of proof is on you; shouting is not going to help. Exactly. Yes, the Iliad and Odyssey are two of the greatest works of literature and are certainly worth reading. However, they're written down c. 700 BC and are therefore not useful for 0 A.D.'s timeframe (500–1 BC). However: Which proofs rugs existed. Which shows the Greeks knew of their existence. Also, Aristophanes Ecclesiazusae contains a scene (311 onwards) where an ordinary Athenian citizen goes outside to defecate in the morning, but because he couldn't find his own clothes, he takes his wife's (317–319): […], λαμβάνω τουτὶ τὸ τῆς γυναικὸς ἡμιδιπλοίδιον, καὶ τὰς ἐκείνης Περσικὰς ὑφέλκομαι. “I took this semi-foldover of my wife's and pulled on her Persian slippers.” And when his neighbour spots him and asks what he's wearing, he answers (331–332): οὔκ, ἀλλὰ τῆς γυναικὸς ἐξελήλυθα τὸ κροκωτίδιον ἀμπισχόμενος οὑνδύεται. “No, I've come out wearing my wife's little saffron number that she usually puts on.” No, there are no rugs mentioned here, however, this scene indicates that it was not uncommon for ordinary 4th C BC Athenian citizens to have luxury products such as dyed cloth and imported Persian goods. In parts of Egypt, India, and other areas where rain is rare, days are hot, and nights cool, it is not unusual to sleep on the roof, which also explains why the rooftop is flat and why carpets might be not inappropiate there. (To clarify, I'm not claiming rugs were common.)

Yes, everyone is welcome, we're all volunteers, and anyone can contribute, participate in discussions, create content, submit patches, comment on proposals and commits, create tickets on trac, edit wiki pages, etc. The primary difference is that only team members can commit to the 0 A.D. repositories. Do I? No, not me, I'm not a team member. Something that would be nice to have is a page which lists the template name, specific name, and generic name of all structures and units in game, because that would simplify finding and correcting inconsistencies in the (specific) names. E.g.: athen_barracks.xml, Stratēgeîon, Barracks. (Maybe someone else could write a script to generate such a list?) Also, have a look at https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/EnglishStyleGuide

56. Something else I'm contemplating is replacing the AI's resource gain (Medium 100%, Very Hard 160%) with resource costs and build time multiplier(s), e.g. Very Easy 200%, Medium 100%, Very Hard 50%. Any suggestions on how to do that?

Updated 0abc: checked A23b compability (no changes were required) changed player colours: 0°, 225°, 90°, 315°, 180°, 45°, 270°, 135° increased unit training times new civilization bonuses: Carthaginians: traders −20% training time Mauryas: elephants −20% training time Persians: archers −20% training time Romans: siege weapons −20% construction time incorporated @Feldfeld's D1707

Hello and welcome! I have a few questions: What kind of documentation do you intend to start with? Are you familiar with LaTeX, Markdown, XML, or other markup languages? What do you think of https://play0ad.com/ ? Have you already registered at https://code.wildfiregames.com/ and https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ ? What would you be able to do as a team member you can't do right now? There is actually a third kind as well: in-game documentation.

Ignore that table at the bottom of the page. What we need is a list of phrases per language. I've organized the page a bit, hopefully it helps.

You can also browse the most recent game files at https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/ If you want to add a civilization, at the very least you'll need to create a {civ}.json file and place it under simulation/data/civs/ You probably also want to have a look at the templates under simulation/templates/structures/ and ../units/

Could you split up your list by phase, to make it easier to read? E.g.: Gauls: village: spearman javelinist cavalry javelinist town: ... city: I suppose you mean Proto-Celtic?

A word of caution: Arab originally meant desert dweller; we now call them Bedouins. So when in the Koran/Qur'an Mohammed calls the Arabs worse than heathens, he doesn't mean the people of Mecca and Medina, no, he's fulminating against the nomadic peoples who refuse to accept his leadership (and stick to the polytheism of their ancestors).

Not entirely correct. Yes, pitched battles were rare; if you had written "sieges were twenty times as common as pitched battles" I wouldn't have objected. However, your hyperbole is misleading: warfare actually consisted mostly of skirmishes, raids, plundering the countryside, that kind of things.