Flavius Aetius

The Yuezhi were Tocharian. The theory is that they were related to the Kushans. My understanding though is that there's very little evidence of Tocharian in the Kushan language which is a massive problem with that theory. So: Yes the Xiongnu and the Huns were also different in many ways. But the steppes were more about identity than ethnicity. RE the Hepthaltites: They weren't Xiongnu, they were Hua, a vassal people of the Rouran. Or at least that's the best theory we have right now. They were definitely some sort of early Turkic nomad like the Huns, Oghurs, etc. As for Haplogroup Q-M242... yes Y-Chromosomal haplogroups tend to spread really easily. The difference is that the Huns from sites such as Barkol, etc. have consistently expressed Q-M242 M25 L-712 thru L-715 which are consistent with Yeniseian peoples. The issue is that we have a rather limited sample size. The Huns also used infantry. They were recruited from their vassal states, and the Xiongnu vassalized many principalities in Xinjiang (the Tarim Basin and surrounding area). There would obviously be a lot of variation from region to region but vassals from a wide area definitely supplemented the steppe nomads themselves, some coming from the Forest zone of South Siberia. Chinese sources admittedly aren't my area, I deal with the European Huns mostly. That being said we know of several steppe nomad fortresses, namely Igdui-Kala in Kazakhstan, which dates to the 4th-5th centuries AD and is probably Hunnic. If you can provide me more info about said fortress and Zhao Xin, I can probably find more info on it for you. Yes.

Ho boy, So as an actual Hun Historian let's clear up a few things: 1. The Xiongnu and the Huns were the same people. The word has a Yeniseian and Old Turkic mixed origin as it relates to both the ruling dynasty of the Xiongnu (a Yeniseian people) and the Old Turkic name for the Ongi River in Mongolia. We don't know what it means other than that it was a dynastic name. Xiongnu is pronounced "Hongna" and was transmitted over the Himalayas or via sea trade to India and transliterated into Sanskrit, before coming up from India into Sogdian, and then spreading into Bactrian Greek as Ounna, where it became Ounnoi in Roman Greek (Romeika), and then Hunni in Latin. 2. The Huns themselves are directly related. Huns can be identified by the Haplogroup Q-M242. Some of you here might know that's weird because Q-M242 is Native American DNA. It's also Yeniseian DNA, with the Kettic people having the highest concentration at 99%, and high concentrations east into Beringia, where the Yeniseians and the Dene people separated about 18,000 years ago. However, the majority of the Huns that entered Europe were not Yeniseian although most had some percentage of Yeniseian DNA and ancestry. They also no longer spoke Yeniseian (Xiongnu), but now spoke Oghuric Turkic, with many Yeniseian loanwords, and this was the language the Romans identified as Hunnic and the people the Romans called Hunnic. They were the same identity as Xiongnu, but with many changes since the days of Modun Chanyu in the 3rd century BC. 3. If you're considering Steppe Nomad factions, then they should be: Scythians (who are related to the Karluk people) Sarmatians/Alans (Also Indo-Iranian nomads like the Scythians) Xiongnu/Huns (The same people, effectively. The last of the Yeniseian nomads and the first of the Turkic-speaking nomads). 4. If you have questions I can probably answer any of them about the Huns and I know a lot about the Alans too (Scythian is a bit beyond my usual area but I know more than most). I haven't bothered to read all of this thread but feel free to ask.

Goths would work just as well for Vandals.

The Khazars I think are already being grouped underneath the Avars, which will cover all the Gok-Turkic factions.

Agreed, sub-factions could work. Or make their units recruitable through a scenario-only building like the Stoa can recruit Theurophoroi.

The army of Heraclius' time wasn't much different than the army of Justinian. The difference came when Heraclius established the Theme system in the last year of his reign.

Yeah, it's supposed to represent the evolution of the Roman Skoutatos. The one on the left is 6th century, the one in the middle is 8th century, and the one on the right is 10th century. The shield pattern on the right is actually applicable to all three unit models, but the patterns on the left are not. They all have trousers called Feminalia, which were tight fitting linen trousers (but not like, "tights" tight fitting). The 6th century guy is wearing Braccae, which were looser. I didn't put leg armor (Greaves) on any of them. And chainmail is actually the heaviest of the armors shown. The one in the middle is thick quilted linen (probably at least an inch thick) and the one on the right is Lamellar.

We were aiming to cover the Majority of the period, with Thematic Byzantine (Nikephorian more or less). These unit types are applicable from about 638 AD almost all the way to 1071 AD. Although the Justinian and Heraclian Armies were important, they are too early for complete coverage of the Roman Era, although through unit experience upgrades earlier style units can be represented (I will post that picture I drew in a few minutes here, it's scanning).

Germanic Tribes Were: Franks Lombards Goths Saxons And of course all the ones not on the list. Celtic was a different culture completely.

Some Dates: Franks: They form in the year 297-ish, and I'd cut it off at Clovis' reign in 480's. Saxons: The Saxons from about 353 or so, and I'd cut it off at the Battle of Mount Badon in 483 (I think it is) Suebes: Suebes are a generic culture that last a very, very long time. The beginnings of the Suebic culture date to around almost 250 BC, and last until almost 500 AD. They would be divided into several periods: Early250-1), Middle (1-250), and Late (250-500). The Suebes included the Quaddi, Marcomanni, Alemanni, Asdingi and Silingi Vandals, Suebes, and uh... others. After about 500 Ethnogenesis splits it up into individual cultures like Bavarian and whatnot.

What is the theme of the next update? That will help determine the name.

Just thought of a few siege weapons: Part 1: (500-1000) Mangonel/Traction Trebuchet (Invented by the Chinese and introduced by the Avars and Sassanids to the Rhomaioi) Hand Trebuchet (Rhomaioi Portable Single-Man Traction Trebuchet) - this one is a maybe I guess. Could be an exclusive No Images available Late Roman Scorpio (Would be Rhomaioi exclusive): http://www.comitatus.net/armyballista.html Part 2: (1000-1500) Counterweight Trebuchet (Invented by the Rhomaioi and spread quickly across Europe)

The Two Sicilies thing is my fault. They should just fall under "Norman" Yes, we should add a generic "Crusader States" Faction for Balkans, Middle Eastern, and Teutonic Crusaders. Updating the list I made.

Should throw in "Illyrian Liburna" under the Illyrian roster.

I've been getting a lot of crashes with Alpha 16, seemingly randomly and always in the middle of gameplay. I'll try and get crash reports for you guys.

Roman Drill Commands: http://www.ludusmilitis.org/articles/LM_Tactica_May_2010.pdf These are based on a number of known commands form various texts ranging from Caesar's Gallic Wars to the Strategikon of Maurikos.

The Rus would probably be better as an independent nation for the second half, because they had a lot of cultural differentiation from their Viking and Slavic predecessors. I'm aware of the distinction between Sassanids and Abbasids, but they were both characteristically Persian. Chalukya India, I realized, should be Pala Empire India.

Lol I just updated mine for both halves. See the post above yours.

Cumans are out of this timeframe I realized, so just the Avars. The Bulgars (Oghurs, Danube Bulgars, etc) and Slavs (Antes, Croats, etc) were different peoples: the Bulgars were the descendants of the Huns, from the Volga-Khwarizmi-Ob Region, while the Slavs that went on to form Serbia, Croatia, etc. were from the region of Belarus and were a very different culture, although both influenced each other. I agree that Asuka Japan is the proper nation for our timeframe. The Seljuqs should also be removed. I agree Burgundians can be removed, but Lombards should stay. They were a very important part of the formation of Italy and dominated that Peninusla for centuries, and them being not well-known is irrelevant, as our purpose here is to teach History in an enjoyable experience, is it not? Also, should we add the Rus? Very important in the first 500 years of the middle ages. They would also be one of the factions that extend over to the second half. The Alemanni should be removed as they were absorbed by the Franks in the 5th Century AD. A Better List: 500-1000 AD Roman: Basileia Toh Rhomaion (Thematic Byzantine) Steppe Nomad: Avars/Khazars Magyars East European: Slavs Bulgars West European: Franks Lombards Goths North European: Vikings Saxons Celtic (Picts, Early Scots, Early Irish) Islamic: Umayyad Arabs Abbasid Persia Far East: Tang China Asuka Japan Pala India 1000-1500 AD Roman: Basileia Toh Rhomaion (Palaiologian Byzantine) Eastern European: - Bulgars (Bulgaria) - Magyars (Hungary) - Poland - Rus Western European: - France - Spaniards - Lombards (Lombard Culture Italy) - Holy Roman Empire - Crusader States Northern European: - Scandinavia (Denmark, Sweden, Teutonic Order, Norway) - Norman (Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, Normandy) - England (England, Wales) - Gaelic (Scotland, Ireland) Islamic: - Turks (Seljuq, Ottoman) - Ayyubid Egypt - Moors (Almoravids, Almohads) Steppe Nomad: - Cumans - Mongols Far East: - Song China - Kamakura Japan - Vijayanagara Empire

Will check it out tonight.

Some suggestions for Roman Tech names in the next release: Plywood Shield Construction -> Clipeus (Ovoid Shield) Reinforced Shield Construction -> Scutum (Legionary Shield) Irregular Infantry Skirmishers -> Velites Iron Spearheads -> Contus (Infantry Spear) Roman Logistics -> Logistica (Logistics) Civic Virtue (The +2 Citizen soldier Attack) -> Virtuitas Battlefield Medicine -> Medicus (Doctor) Spolas -> Subarmalis (Underarmor) Lorica Ferrarea - We commonly call this Lorica Segmentata in the Re-Enactment community, but nobody knows what it was really called other than just "Lorica." Furthermore, the Lorica Segmentata dates to 9 AD at the earliest. A few suggestions for Greeks: Spolas and Linothorax need to be switched as the Spolas was the Leather Armor most people think is a Lino Thorax, and the Linothorax was quilted linen, not glued. In fact they think they found a piece of one and it was quilted linen. Spolas is singular, and Spolates is plural by the way. Looking through the rest of the game, will update this list soon.

It is pronounced like the word "I". The reason it's pronounced like an "I" and not like an "eh" or "ee" is because the latter two pronunciations are a result of arabic turkish influence, through modifications of letters like the diaresis. E.g. Aetius should be "Aye-tee-oos", not "Ee-tee-oos" or "Eh-tee-oos" because the Diaresis often put over the E in Aetius' name did not exist until the 11th century AD. (Although the pronunciation is also debatable because it is Latinized Greek [Aetios -> Aetius]) As for the letter Y, I think that in the Latin words that used a Y (can't think of any off the top of my head) its pronunciation was based on context. And yes, the German "Kaisar" is the correct way to pronounce "Caesar"

Can't listen to the voices so not criticizing you guys here, but here is proper Latin pronunciation in "Classical Latin" according to my Latin Teacher with a PHD in Roman culture. v - pronounced like a w (So Flavius is pronunced Flawius) a - pronounced like "ah" e - pronounced like the Fonz ("Eh!") ae - pronounced like the word "I" u - pronnounced like a double O (So Flawioos) i - pronounced like the long way (like the word "I") ii - pronounced like the letter E (So Gladii is Glad-eey-eey) c - pronounced like a K o - pronounced normally, just depends on the letter usage y - pronounced like in the word "I" "So Lekythos is Lek - aye - thos)

I see the list as this: 500 AD - 1000AD Northern Germanics: Saxons Vikings Southern Germanics: Franks Lombards Middle East: Umayyad Arabs Abbasid Persians (Sassanids are kind of early for the 500-1000, only covering the first 150 years) Steppe Nomads: Avars Eastern Europe: Bulgars Slavs Rus Roman: Rhomaion (Thematic Byzantine 700-1000 AD) Mesoamerica: Mayans Far East: Tang Dynasty China Asuka Japan Chalukya Dynasty India