Flavius Aetius

EDIT: Realized you're talking 4th-6th centuries. Plumbatae are fine. I can't see the images ATM cause I'm at school, but will comment when I'm home.

Surprisingly enough, it's more accurate than a lot of the stuff in this thread. And the leg guards are based on Roman Manica, which we know the Sassies used, as well as the Romans. Most of what we know of the Sassies is from their Art as they don't leave much in terms of Artefacts. Not like we could waltz into Iran and excavate anyways. But yeah, it has its issues. Nazeem on RomanArmyTalk is a Sassanid Reenactor and knows what he's talking about. There's another guy on that forum too that's a Sassie.

Don't trust that model, I have seen it before. Not accurate at all. If you want to know about Sassanids, check out the INVASIO BARBARORVM forums for Rome: Total War and contact Gaiten http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?113-INVASIO-BARBARORVM-%28IBFD%29-%28BI%29 http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?21774-G%E4iten He is almost literally an expert on Parthian and Sassanid Infantry, Cavalry, Culture, Language, etc.

Thanks for the information LordGood. As for Foederati. That was something I was wondering about. The Romans had always recruited barbarians into their army, but Foederati were entirely different. Foederati were barbarians settled on Roman lands under Roman terms and had to equip, command, and supply their own units to serve alongside the Roman Army, like allies. They did not replace it. And Foederati came in lots of different types. Some were recruited into Roman units and just became Roman Soldiers (remember our concepts of ethnicity and nationalism were irrelevant back then). Unnigardae, the elite unit I suggested for the West, were a form of Foederati known as Bucellarii. And I was thinking that one of the unique Late Roman buildings could recruit Foederati. Maybe replace the Roman Camp (Republic) with a Laetus (Barbarian Settlement)? And then one could recruit like 2-3 types of Foederati there, which would be weaker than Roman units but with a lower cost and faster train time?

You mean the Optimatoi? They were a unit of elite Byzantine Kataphraktoi/Klivanoi (Catafractarii/Clibanarii, the latter of which is where Klivanion comes from).

I've wanted to contribute ideas towards 0AD for a little while now, and thought the best thing I could do would be the discussion of a faction I had ideas for: Late Rome. It was mentioned that you guys are looking to add one in the future, and I thought I could help by contributing ideas. I posted a bit in the Byzantine Thread, but as a faction Late Rome needs it's own thread. Also, if this is in the wrong location please move it. Here are some ideas (I will update OP as discussion develops) And basic information. I have specified this for an Eastern and Western Empire, although a General Late Rome could work too. Recruitment Tree: Barracks: Infantry: Limitanei (Village Phase: Spearmen) -Limitanei were the border Legions. They were pretty much just as well equipped and trained as Comitatenses, but served a different purpose. They have a Contus (Spear), large ovoid shield, and sometimes a helmet and sometimes armor. Comitatenses (Town Phase: Swordsmen) - Comitatenses were the mobile field forces, originally designed for putting down internal revolts, they later were required to combat the Barbarians and Sassanid Persians. They have a large circular shield, Spatha (longsword), helmet, and armor. Auxilia Palatina (City Phase: Champion) - Auxilia Palatina Were the "crack troops" of the Late Roman era, better than the Comitatenses and they also served in specialist roles. They have a large ovoid shield, a Spatha, and have a helmet, greaves, and armor. Ranged: Sagittarii (Village Phase: Archers) - Sagittarii were Roman archers. They were usually armed with a symmetric composite bow, and sometimes they had armor. Sagittarii were now an integral part of a Roman Legion, rather than just being Auxiliary support like in the Principate. Arcuballistarii (Town Phase: Crossbowmen) - The Arcuballista was the Late Roman Crossbow. Although it was uncommon, it could be more powerful than a bow, and was generally easier to use. They were not the same as medieval crossbows, as they seemed to have had a different trigger mechanism and used a wooden prod without a stirrup, and were spanned in a different method. Cavalry: Scutarii (Village Phase: Javelineers) - The Scutarii were screening cavalry of the Limitanei grade, equipped with a large infantry shield, spatha, and light javelins. Promoti (Town Phase: Sword Cavalry) - The Promoti were Late Roman Comitatensian cavalry, descended from the cavalry detachments of Principate Roman Legions, they had a smaller shield and used a Spatha or Contus. They were armored cavalry, and used to chase off enemy cavalry and exploit gaps in an enemy formation. Unnigardae (City Phase: Western Empire Champion Cavalry) - Unnigardae were specialist Hunnic Bucellarii, or private retainers of Roman Generals, used heavily in the Western Empire. Aetius used them most prominently, but they had been in use since Theodosius I and remained in use until the time of the Emperor Maurice. Unnigardae are armed with the powerful Hunnic Asymmetric bow, and (provided the game does not go past 600 AD) would be the best horse archers in the game. Catafractarii (City Phase: Eastern Empire Champion Cavalry) - Cataphracts were super-heavy cavalry, designed to crush enemy cavalry and smash into openings in an enemy formation in order to turn the tide of a battle. They were armored head to toe, and some even had armor for their horses, who were called Clibanarii. Siege Weapons: Tragularii (Bolt Shooters) - Tragularii were soldiers who operated siege engines, in this case the Manuballista, a small, metal-framed version of the earlier Roman Scorpio. Although carried by a single person, they still needed 2 operators and were mounted on a stand. It was famed that these devices could shoot across the Danube. Onager (Catapult) - Onagers were Roman catapults. These are already in the game, but not developed or assigned to any faction. The Onager didn't come about until the 1st Century AD, and the Sassanids later used it to invent the Mangonel. Navy: Piscator (Lit. Fisherman, Fishing Boat) - A Piscator was a Fisherman. He operates a Fishing Boat. Can't say much more. Merchant Vessel - Can't Remember the Latin word for a generic Merchant Ship. There were a lot of classifications though. Liburna - The Liburna was the only warship of the Late Roman era, as others had been phased out. Although small, it had a lot of technological advances that made up for this: Lateen Sails, Skeleton-First Construction, and the Spur rather than a Ram. This should help counterbalance the Late Roman Navy against the other factions, as it would have slightly higher attack than a normal liburna and would be slightly cheaper and slightly quicker to build. Heroes: Western: Constantinus Magnus (Barracks Cavalry Bonus) - Constantine the Great was the legendary Emperor who supposedly converted to Christianity before the Battle of Milvian Bridge in AD 312. By 324, he had reunited the Empire and instituted the Late Roman military and administrative system, or at least had made it official. By the time he died in 337, Christianity had become the dominant religion in the Empire. Iulianus Apostatus (Barracks Infantry Bonus) - Julian the Apostate is famed for trying to restore the Pagan religions of Rome, and was a masterful infantry general. He united the divided Empire, defeated Chnodomarius' Alemanni, and invaded Sassanid Persia, where he was struck by a Javelin and died in combat. He was considered a true Roman Emperor, but his legacy fell apart with the Christians who succeeded him. Flavius Aetius (Champion Cavalry Bonus) - Flavius Aetius is usually known as the "Last of the Romans" and managed to hold together the Dying Empire from 425-454 AD. He is also famed for beating Attila the Hun at the Battle of Chalons, and his various generals and associates would be the ones who tore the empire apart with their bids to replace him. He was a master of Gothic, Roman, and Hunnic warfare and used large numbers of Huns to defeat his enemies. Eastern: Valens (Barracks Cavalry Bonus) - Valens was the Emperor who was defeated at the Battle of Adrianople. He was a very capable, skilled man, and it was the incompetence of his subordinates who lead to his death. He fought the Goths and Sassanids with effect before being slain in 378. Theodosius Magnus (Champion Infantry Bonus) - Theodosius the Great was the man who made Christianity the only Legal Religion of the Empire (it had been official for about 12 years when he did) and reunited the Empire for the last time after defeating the western Romans at the Battle of the River Frigidus. His Eastern Empire would live for a thousand years more than the Western one. Belisarius (Champion Cavalry Bonus) - Belisarius was the General who reconqured North Africa, Italy, and fought in the final round of Gothic Wars with Totila. He was a masterful commander of Byzantine Cavalry, and skilled Infantry general as well. He and Justinian, although bitter political rivals, brought about major administrative, legal, and military reforms in the Eastern Roman Empire that distinguished it significantly from earlier times. Buildings: Any building not mentioned is the same as the early Roman faction. Castra (Barracks) - Castra meant a Roman Miltiary marching camp, but also a Barracks. For training infantry and some upgrades. Fabrica (Blacksmith) - The Fabricae were massive industrial complexes, one even being found at Amiens, that mass-produced all the equipment necessary for the Roman Army, including clothes and other necessities. For military armor and weapons upgrades. Praesidium (Fortress) - The Praesidium was the central headquarters of a permanent Late Roman Fort. It was the office of the Tribunis/Praepositus/Praefectus of the unit and served for logistics and administration as well. Used for Siege Equipment and Champion units. Arcus Constantinus (Western Empire Wonder) - The Arch of Constantine commemorated his triumph as an Usurper and his reunification of the Western Half of the Roman Empire. Used to research Late Roman Special Idea Codex Theodosiani. Vallum Theodosianum (Eastern Empire Wonder) - The Theodosian Landwalls were built to prevent Constantinople from ever being taken by land, and they did for over 1000 years, when cannons finally shook them down. In-game they could be used to replace the normal wall maybe. Used to research Late Roman Special Idea Codex Theodosiani. Burgus (Outpost) - The Burgus was a Latinized Germanic word for the Roman Outposts that adorned the frontiers of the Empire. Used to research outpost related tech. Castellum (Roman Camp) - The Roman Miltiary Camp used in the Republican Roman Faction, but a different word for it. Used for recruitment of units in neutral territory. Basilica (Temple) - The Basilica was re-purposed from being an office building to a Church in the Late Roman Era. Used for Priests and associated upgrades. Technologies Blacksmith Infantry Attack (Incomplete) - Spatha (Swords +1) or Spiculum (Javelins +2) Infantry Armor (Incomplete) - Thorocomachus (Hack Def. +1) or Planked Scutum (Pierce Def. +1) - Intermediate - Intermediate - Clibanus (Hack Def. and Iron requirement) or (Metal Shield Replacement Needed) Cavalry Attack/Armor - Contus et Arcus (Melee Attack +2) or (Chamfron Replacement Needed) Wonder Codex Theodosiani (Wonder Tech) - The Codex Theodosiani was a consolidation of the past 200 years of Roman laws, compiled in 438 and added to until the reign of Justinian I. Effect: Improved Administration (-10% build time for all military units). Ideas and Suggestions Everyone? I know a lot but not everything, although I could probably finish this list on my own if I went back and looked through all of my books. Please add to or offer replacements for this list.

Late Roman is technically defined as 284-638 AD but the army I posted is The army of about 324-476 AD. EDIT: I made a topic in the ideas and suggestions forum. I can answer questions you have, but a lot of my time is dedicated. Thanks for the offer though.

Can the OP consolidate this into a master list so everyone knows what has already been posted? That would be helpful.

Are there any files you have to delete after scripting a change? EG Rome Total War where you usually have to delete the map.rwm file? It would be useful to make a program that will automatically delete files before launching the game.

Oh yes. Building styles, Military, Appearance, and Heroes were vastly different for each of those 4 basic Byzantine Eras. I'm no expert on Byzantine, but I've learned a lot through Byzantine reenactors. I can give basics. IMPORTANT EDIT: Should we split this topid between "Late Romans" and "Byzantines"? Beacuse it was a pretty big differentiation in culture, organization, and military.

Having played the previous and the Osiris version, I must say it's a great improvement. Look forward to the continued hard work and releases!

If you go that late, you would have several Byzantine factions: East Romans, then probably Thematic Byzantine, then Komnenian (a mix of Thematic and Pronoia), then Palaiologian (The "down the tubes" Pronoia-based system). Glad to help in any way I can.

IMG tags wouldn't work, maybe because I'm new? BTW, this game is great and I've wanted to contribute to the Late Roman part of it in some form for a while. I just never knew it had a forums.

I can see a Strategic Campaign system like that. This is my idea (it's sort of like the Age of Empires Gold Campaigns): Several Campaigns, each in a different Area and different time period. You have to beat each "Campaign" to proceed to the next one. 1. Greco-Persian Wars (480 BC). Takes place in Greece, Lower Thrace, and West Anatolia. Factions are Hellenes, Thebes, Athens, Sparta, Persia 2. Punic Wars (270 BC): Takes place in Lower Italy, Sicily, Tunisia, and Lower Corsica/Sardinia Factions are Hellenes, Carthaginians, and Romans 3. Macedonian wars (140 BC): Takes place in Macedonia, Illyria, Moesia Factions are Hellenes, Macedonians, Celts, and Romans 4. Caesar's Gallic Conquest (50 BC): Takes Place in Gaul. Factions are Britons, Celts, Gauls, maybe Early Germanics, maybe Iberians, and Marian Romans 5. Dacian Wars (105): Takes place in Moesia, Upper Thrace, and Dacia. Factions are Imperial Romans, Early Germanics, Sarmatians, and Dacians 6. Marcomannic Wars (160): Takes Place in Pannonia and Noricum, and Western Dacia as well as lower Germania. Factions are Imperial Romans, Early Germanics, and Sarmatians. 5. Rise of the Sassanids (220): Takes Place in Mesopotamia, Armenia, East Syria/Anatolia, Babylonia, and maybe as far as Persia. Factions are Imperial Romans, Sarmatians, Parthians, and Sassanid Persians. 7. Gothic Wars (370 AD): Takes place in Macedonia, Thrace, and Moesia. Factions are Goths, Sarmatians, and Late Romans (East if there will be both halves) 8. Conquest of Britain (410 AD): Takes place in Britain. Factions are Picts, Romano-British, and Saxons 9. Invasion of Gaul (450 AD): Takes place in Gaul. Factions are Goths (2 of them), Late Romans (West), Huns, Sarmatians, Franks, Burgundians, Alemanni. Teams on this one (Romans Sarmatians and Goths vs. Huns, Goths, and Burgundians. Franks and Alemanni Neutral) 10. Roman Reconquest (560): Takes place in North Africa and Italy. Factions are East Romans, Goths, Vandals, and Lombards. Alternatively, maybe this overall timeline campaign could be like a Tutorial, and then have campaigns focusing on each individual era mentioned in the Tutorial?

Roman Arms and Armor (Some of these are corrections): Weapons: Pugio: The long, wide Roman dagger, likely modeled after the Xiphos, used by Late Republic and Principate Era Roman soldiers (100 BC - 200 AD) Gladius Hispaniensis: A Short Sword between 22 and 28 inches long used until approximately 250 BC through 50 BC by Republican infantry. Gladius Pompeiensis: A modern term for the classic "Pompeii-Type Gladius" that featured from roughly 25 AD through 250 AD by Roman Infantry. Spatha: A Roman longsword used by Cavalry that first appeared in about the time of Marius, and by 250 AD was also used by Roman Infantry. There are a number of Spatha types, including Lauriacum-Hromovka, Gold Hilt Spathae, etc. Hasta: The 7-foot Roman spear. It was later called the Contus and was lengthened to 8-10 foot by the 4th century AD. Pilum: The Roman heavy javelin identified by use of a tang, a four-sided pyrimidal point, and a long 60-90cm Iron shaft. It was in use as early as about 300 BC, and was phased out by about 250 AD. It was standard for Roman Heavy infantry at that time. Spiculum: A Late Roman version of the Pilum, which had a shorter 30-60cm Iron shaft, a barbed head, and was socketed rather than tanged. Lancaea/Verrutum: Two names for the Roman Light Javelin, which had a leaf-bladed or pyramidal head. The term Verrutum only dates to the Late Roman Era (250-630 AD) but the Lancaea was used from the Early Republic to the Late Empire (300 BC - 630 AD) Scutum: The Roman shield, usually rectangular-ish in shape. In the Late Era it just meant shield in general. Clipeus: A term referring to the Ovoid shields used by the Auxiliaries in the Late Republic and Principate. It was also used by Cavalry, and sometimes was Hexagonal. Parma: A Smaller Round shield, used by the various officers like the Vexillarius, Aquilifer, Tubicen, Cornicen, etc. Armor: Lorica Hamata - The actual Roman term for maile armor, which was adopted by the Romans from the Greeks or the Gauls in the 3rd century BC. It remained in use until the Fall of Constantinople in 1453, but underwent some design changes. Lorica Squamata - The Roman term for Scale and Lamellar armor. It was in use before Hamata and remained in use until 1453 as well. It also referred to Roman Scale gorgets and Roman Scale coifs. Lorica Segmentata - The modern term for the Roman segmented armor, which was in use from about 14 AD to 280 AD Lorica Plumata - A term for rigid scales attached to a maile backing, was highly decorative and added little aditional defense, but had a huge psychological effect because they were shiny and looked like feathers. Lorica Musculata - The Roman term for their Bronze, and later Iron, Muscle Cuirasses. Pectoralis - The Small Breastplate used by Republican Roman soldiers, IIRC it also referred to the Three-Disc armor as well. Subarmalis - A very light, thin leather or linen undergarment for armor, equipped with Pteruges which were strips that hung down from the arms or over the thighs. It was actually very uncommon amongst infantry, although used often by officers. Thorocomachus - The Late Roman Subarmalis, which was about an inch thick and made of linen with a goatskin covering. This was actually designed to absorb blunt force blows, unlike the Subarmalis. Balteus: The Roman Belt. The decorative strips hanging down that displayed a soldier's wealth were each called a Cingulum and are often mistaken for a groin guard. In the Republican era, Cingulum may have also referred to the Second belt worn by Roman soldiers. Cassis/Galea - Terms for the Roman helmet Oracae (Also Ocrea) - Greaves Manica - Roman segmented arm armor in use from about 50 AD through about 600 AD. Tunica - The Roman Tunic. The Tunica Manicata was the decorative Late Roman version. Sagum - Roman Rectangular cloak. The Abolla was very similar and popular in the Republic and Late Empire. Paenula - Roman hooded cloak, rectangular or ovoid in shape. Cucullus - A Roman hood. Fascia Ventralis - Cloth waist sash worn under a belt or for lack thereof Udones - Socks Caligae - The Classic Roman sandals in use from about 50BC through 150 AD Calcei/Carbatinae - Roman boots, the difference was their construction. Calcei were 1-piece construction while Carbatinae were 2 piece construction. Later on, low-sided boots were called Campagi and these date from the 4th-6th centuries AD. Pileus Pannonicus - Roman Pillbox cap popular from the 2nd through 5th centuries AD Pileus - Roman descendant of the Greek Pilos cap. Phrygian caps may have also been called this. Greek Arms and Armor: Armor: Mitra - A small groin plate used on the Bell Cuirass, not the Muscle Cuirass. These fell out of use beginning in about the 5th century BC. Spolas (pl. Spolates) - A Greek Tube and Yoke Cuirass, made of thick, heavy leather and udually painted. This is what is depicted and mistaken for the so called "Linothroax." Linothorax - A Greek thick, quilted linen armor. It was not made of glued linen as popular belief would have it, and was likely adopted from Egyptian quilted linen armor.

Equites Scutarii/Mauri/Armagerii - Scutarii meant "Shieldbearers" and it is thought that these were cavalry armed with large infantry shields, rather than small cavalry shields.Mauri and Armagerii were similar to Scutarii, but didn't have the large shield. They were graded as "Limitanei" cavalry and were likely armed with,as well as a sword or lance, several light javelins.Like thier infantry counterparts, they were not the undisciplined, lower-quality troops most people think of when concerning the Limitanei. They served as a screening force for the Roman infantry. They would have looked something like this: http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/julianus_heraclius/Revised%20Roman%20UI%20Cards/Equites_auxilia_info.jpg In terms of 0AD, these would be the "Socii" or Italian Allies slot Equites Promoti/Stablesiani - Promoti and Stablesiani were the descendents of the cavalry detachments of the Roman Legions of the Principate, and were usually Comitatenses-grade troops. They were armed similarly to Scutarii, but were lancers rather than javelineers. Unlike the Scutarii, they were supposed to engage enemy cavalry, but were not that effective against infantry unless attacking from the sides or rear of a formation. They would have looked something like this: http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/julianus_heraclius/Revised%20Roman%20UI%20Cards/sarmatian_auxilia_info.jpg In terms of 0AD, these would be the Roman Equites Slot Equites Catafractarii/Clibanarii - Equites Catafractarii and Clibanarii were Roman Superheavy Cavalry, second only to the Bucellarii of some of the Roman Magister Militae. The difference was that Catafractarii seemed to have been armored head to toe, but Clibanarii had an armored horse as well. They were shock cavalry, often equipped to use Hunnic and Sarmatian "lance-and-bow" tactics, in which one was trained to switch between lance and bow usage quickly while in combat, as the situation demanded. Like Promoti, they were designed to smash enemy cavalry and exploit gaps in infantry formations. Although heavily armored, this was exploited to take them down: for example at Strausborg in 357 AD, the Alemanni hid infantry in the tall grass with their cavalry, that would cut the horses out from underneath their riders, and get up under the horse armor of the Clibanarii. This is what they would have looked like: http://comitatus.net/images/comitatuscavalry82.jpg In Terms of 0AD, these would have been in the "Consular Bodyguard" slot. Heroes: These are just Hero recommendations: Eastern Empire: Theodosius the Great - Bonus to Barracks Infantry Belisarius - Bonus to Cavalry Heraclius - Bonus to Champion Infantry Western Empire: Julian the Apostate - Bonus to Barracks Infantry Flavius Stilicho - Bonus to Barracks Cavalry Flavius Aetius - Bonus to Champion Infantry The IMG tags didn't work so I had to link, sorry about that. More on the Late Roman Navy and Foederati Later

Hi, As this is my first post I will say a little about myself first. I am the project leader of the mod INVASIO BARBARORVM: VLTIMVS ROMANORVM for the Rome Total War: Barbarian Invasion 1.6 platform. I am also a Roman Re-Enactor and author of my own book on the Battle of the Catalaunian Fields (It is not yet published.) Now, to the topic at hand: Many of the images on this thread, are frankly, WRONG. I recognized many of the ones in the first post as being by D'Amato, who frankly has his own crazy fantasies about the Roman army that are horribly incorrect. Now, let's look at the Eastern and Western Roman Empire in a historically correct pesrpective: Roman Troops: Limitanei - The Limitanei were high quality border garrison troops. Contrary to popular belief, they were not undisciplined, barbarized, or neglected, and were the front line of defence against the "Barbarians" of the Later Roman Empire. The Limitanei were first established in Britain by Constantine before he left for Gaul, where he established the Ripenses Garrisons on the Rhine (a grade of Limitanei). Limitanei come in 4 grades: Burgarii (Who man watch towers, which is individually called a Burgus), Castellanii (Who man the Roman Stone Forts which are each called a Castellum), Ripenses and Riparienses (Grades of troops that manned the Rhine and Danube frontiers, likely differentiated by unit size). Generally Speaking, Limitanei would have looked something like this: http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/247/6/4/limitanei_by_amelianvs-d6kqs8g.jpg In terms of 0Ad, they would go in the "Hastatii" Slot Comitatenses - Beginning in the mid 4th Century AD, Comitatenses became the primary fighting force against major incursions, but were not originally created for that purpose. The Comitatenses were supposed to be centralized armies used for putting down rebellions, but switched out of that role due to the ability of Barbarian groups to form "Superconfederations" beginning in the mid-4th century, and later the militarized and often rebellious Foederatii that eventually brought down the Empire. Generally Speaking, they would have looked something like this: http://amelianvs.deviantart.com/art/Battle-of-Frygium-27-July-363-366190126 In terms of 0AD, they would go in the "Triarii" slot For the East Roman Empire specifically, I recommend Legio V Macedonica, which lasted until 635 AD, and Legio IIII Parthica, which lasted to around the 630's as well. Auxilia/Legio Palatina - Auxilia and Legio Palatina were created from a mix of old Legionary and Auxilia regiments, often with no respectivity to what they were created from. They usually were armored the same as their Comitatenses counterparts, but were better trained and more disciplined. Auxilia Palatina formed the core of the most famous Late Roman Armies: Julian's at Strausborg, Valens' at Adrianople, and Aetius' at Chalons, just to name a few. They would have looked something like this: http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/julianus_heraclius/auxilia_palatini_cornuti_brachiati.jpg In terms of 0AD, they would go in the "Extraordinarii" slot. For the Eastern Roman Empire specifically, I recommend the Felices Theodosiaci, a unit which lasted until 980 AD. I will post more later on Late Roman Cavalry. This organizational system was maintained up until the time of the Emperor Maurice, and somewhat later. It was replaced by the Thematic army beginning in 638. The IMG tags didn't work so I had to link, sorry about that.