zzippy

a16? Afaik you need a17 (svn) ...

It's a new feature. Atm it's not a mod downloading screen, it is a mod selection screen. Just select 0ad, hit enable, and start the game on the bottom of screen.

why do I have the idea that this (sigh, again) leads to nothing at all ....

A few thoughts: Not so easy to create that excel file. Mythos -reverted- changes have been (afair) huge. Many changes affect each other, so its hard to rate a single change. Also the players skill is important. Spoken for me, I am in fact kinda noob; though playing svn and sbb for hours, my thoughts/ratings about balance differences might be pretty useless due to much less experience in rts games in general. There was a discussion to start a tournament in svn (aimed at bughunting before a17 release) in the forum. Maybe thats a way to start? This tournament could be enlarged to the balance branches, players had to install svn, sbb and mbb. Then players could vote/discuss for features/changes. On the other hand, since svn doesn't differ in balancing compared to a16 so much, it might be less work if scythe would merge his branch to svn. svn anyway should be tested before feature freeze by as many players as possible, so its np to rate the balancing changes too while bughunting. I yet dunno if the mergecandidate branch contents huge changes like the taken out hardboni and formations. This might even be more a design than a balancing question, though the hardboni in fact fight unbalancing. There is also a document by alpha123 about hardbonus in general: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PxeSahVf5J6h32jy2iqTHlnogtQSHPocXKqNSspyMUs/edit?pli=1 Back to that excel document: Maybe start with a list of players which agree to install svn and sbb (if there will be no merge in near future)? Imho we urgently need more players, tau already asked how to achieve this; maybe the mods/devs could create kinda official thread appealing to join (besides guerilla advertisement in a16 lobby/irc)?

I think this idea is better realised in a general feature/gameplay thread. It is important that existing balance changes are not only rated by reading, but by testing. Means: Install and play the balance branch and install and play svn/a17, as scythe said in the 1rst post of this thread: Though please try to refrain from making balance criticisms until you've played a couple multiplayer games so that everyone is on the same page.

Each branch has its own lobby. Otherwise there would be a nice oos party ...

....yeah. Also walkspeed reduced a little (-10% average) ?

As an attempt to rerail the thread a little, and also cuz suggested by Stanislas69, here again the changelog of the balancing branch, so its easier to discuss certain points and have an overview (I added a little, sure I forgot something, may scythe check this ?): Changelog - Differences from SVN--------------------------------Units- Cavalry have been made weaker to pierce damage, but more resilient against hack.- Rams can now attack all units. In compensation, all organic units get a default of 3 Crush armor.- Ballistas and Onager have a much longer range and vision.- Ballistas deal much more damage.- Healers now cost only food since metal is quite rare.- Elephants now are significantly stronger but more expensive.- The basic formations have been disabled for the time being (with a surprising performance benefit).- Female Citizens train much faster.- Elite Iberian Skirmishers have been nerfed.- All units attack faster.- Slingers deal both crush and pierce damage.- All hard bonuses have been taken out.- Swordsmen cost less metal, but cost a little wood.- Seleucides have ranged infantry in phase1- Walkspeed for all units increased- Gathering capacities decreased because of new techs, starts now with 10 - Mauryan spearman now cost 50food/50wood instead of 50food/40woodStructures- All structures are now weaker against crush and hack damage.- Civic Centers have a better garrison multiplier in an attempt to combat 2v1 rushes. (arrow rate increased from 3arrows/s to 5 arrows/s, also arrow range +50%)- Walls and Wall Towers take significantly longer to build. (Walls 10-30 seconds, walltowers 120s)- Significantly nerfed the Roman Entrenched Army Camp.- Farms have increased HP and more armor against hack and pierce attacks.Technologies- Some technologies have been made expensive (wip)- Some pair technologies have been unpaired.- Added a powerful tech to the wonder. (increases pop max +50, costs 1000 wood/stone/metal)- Phasing now increases health to all citizen soldiers.

Maybe as a gaul hero? Attracting all deer and stone gathering +50% aura?

Strange that I never see one of you guys in the balance branch lobby. Are you talking about scythe balance branch at all? Otherwise, do you mind to stop derailing this thread and post your gameplay ideas in the thread they belong to?

Yes. Thats the problem right now in a16. And the idea is to fix this a little for a17 to reduce scirm cav attacks in the beginning of the game, less "horsegame" .. Afair: in scythe balance branch (btw, the topic of this thread ...) this is achieved by cc arrow rate, stronger fields. Played lots of times, and I like it, knowing that eg Tango_ (by far a more experienced player) was not a friend of the arrow rate. Michael nerfed skirm cav, pierce damage 25% reduced to 15 ..

+1 Just ensure that all civs have ranged infantry units available in phase1 to be able to counter a cav rush without being forced to train cav skirm?

Those "2 quick tests" indeed were with athenians which only have slingers in phase1, so no way vs skirm cav due to speed malus. Pike/spearmen too. Fields are too weak. So the only cav rush counter is to train lots of cav too (a16ish horsegamealarm ) .. Why is crush damage "weird" for slingers? Those guys throw rocks at you. Try with your car and decide after inspecting the damage if its more pierce or crush This attempt doesn't aim the problems of a16 successfully, for my taste .. but, being a non pro player Interested in other opinions after a few more hours of testing, and thanks for that data sheet. Hopefully a good compromise will be found before a17.

So you think its a good way to cooperate? Ah "Surprise" commit over night? To me it seems as there would be no communication at all about balancing the game/gamedesign. But that might be the restricted view of a non_dev .. edit: and, after 2 quick tests: its still a horsegame like a16. Skirm cav totally op.

We should not discuss svn here, this thread is about scythe branch

Worth trying? Its commited to svn, so its in the game right now. "Suprise" is Mythos' commit message. Indeed, a big suprise. After weeks of testing here in the balance branch, he (didn't he kinda leave the team?!) jumps in and changes the game "..after lengthy discussion with Enrique" and "suprises" the other devs with a complete rebalance. Sorry, but: LOL. Is this the way of constructive game design? If I were scythe I would be a little more than "suprised".

Yeah, minimum distance should be increased a little. A cata nearly cannot be taken down if positioned between 2 garrisoned fortresses. Also the effective -but boring- fortress_forward _tactic would be a little nerfed then ..

I don't get it: You disagree that there is no such thing as balancing for inexperienced players, on the other hand you agree that unexperienced players are too unexperienced to exploit an imbalance...isn't that exactly what wraitii says?

You already have installed the current version of the game via software-center and can play the game (a16). Those build instructions are only for the development version of the game (svn/a17).

In scythe' balance branch wonders have a tech: increase pop cap + 50 ... Hopefully this will be in a17..

As Fradiavolo said, the little sword&shield icon shows the arrow rate of the building (here a fortress) which increases when soldiers are garrisoned.

Punish? The wise man just smiles .. .......... Jagst3r21, iNcog, auron2401, what about hanging out in balance lobby a little more? Mostly we miss a 4th man for a decent 2v2. Btw, we created a jabber chatroom where we svn/sbb players normally hangout and arrange for matches or discuss balancing: 0adtalk@conference.jabber.ccc.de

What about the new walkspeed? I'd like to hear a few thoughts about walkspeed increase, since a few balance branch* testers claimed that it is too fast. In my opinion it should be decreased a little again; generally spoken its a step in the right direction (a16 feels like slowmotion when used to balance branch ) ... Your opinions? * note that scythe created a rollback branch which makes a game without oos possible

Just a question @Auron2401: How many games vs human opponent have you played in balance branch yet? I see no "champions problem"at all, at least not before fixing/rebalancing the basics.

It has an effect if you garrison catapults. You can garrison 50 (!!) of them in a quinquereme. If you attack opponents port, as close as possible, that port is gone in seconds ..