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I would refrain from calling it a "cheat;" that seems rather antagonistic. Its a skill in some sense - some players are better at strategically using it than others - but it does feel like its stripping an essential part of the core 0 AD experience, which is why I can't get behind it. I do think it creates an unfair advantage, but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a cheat. Admittedly, I've never tried it. I think the stock 0 AD interface is pretty good, so I don't feel the need.

I still wouldn't be able to get past Lionel Messi. And if Lionel Messi said before the game "Yes, try, let's see how far you get, and you can also add two more players from your family" then I don't think we should forbid Lionel Messi from playing like that. Or? Yes, but then it feels not like cheating for me.

I play for fun, I like competing once in a while and I can play fair: I played without the mod for the tournament event if it wasn't required (contrary to what I had thought). What I'm saying is: think what you want to think, but I've been using progui since soon after it was out, and I'm not a cheater.

There have been so many posts in this thread (and that thread) saying that it is cheating. Just because it is public knowledge doesn't mean that it isn't cheating. There is no agreement on any of these items. If there was agreement it would be part of the vanilla game (and thereby not a "cheat"). The only reason why these cheats exist is because someone made the mod and no one can do anything to stop you from using it. Being transparent about cheating doesn't make you any less of a cheat. A cheat is anything that gives an advantage this is not universally agreed to. This mod gives an advantage to the user and is not publicly agreed to. This is a game with no referees to enforce the rules. The game relies on cooperation around the basic rules of the game. If we were to play a soccer match and I picked up the ball with my hands and ran it into the goal it would be cheating. It wouldn't matter that everyone could see me do it (public/transparent). And, it wouldn't matter if there was or wasn't referees to enforce the rules against against. No matter how public. No matter how transparent. A cheat is a cheat. And, players continued use of a mod in games where others call it a cheat loses any good will and benefit of the doubt those players ever had.

Yes, and reminder you can also customize selections hotkeys so it's extra op! Example If you like dogs to be selected with cav, and healer with infantry (in your config file): hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Soldier|Siege|Dog)&!Ship = "" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Soldier|Healer)&!(Ship|Cavalry|Dog) = "Alt+S" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.Cavalry = "" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.Cavalry|Dog = "Alt+E"

The most importants are hotkeys to build structures and some unit selections like, most wounded units, only cavalry and so on

You can not compare a standard of any RTS such as hotkeys with an interface that self-manages the barracks. This discussion about whether or not it is cheating is sterile. Let's say things as they are, while some must look for which barracks was inactive others do not need to waste time on it. It is a clear advantage in favor of the second case. If the game lacks of hotkeys it is because of an obvious development problem. Auto manage barracks is substantial change in gaming experience and the reasons are pretty obvious.

I had a WTF moment when I realized the Britons hero Boudicca actually speaks Greek!... It sure sounds strange...

i also do this. i guess i most of time use mouse. and the hotkey i use sometimes. a bit compromise. nice that i don't need to learn them. because is intuitive. you could learn all in ~5 seconds. i guess i cannot learn all your hotkeys settings in 5 seconds? idk. idk your hogkey settings

@guerringuerrin it seems he switched his account to CryptoCamelius for the purpose of trying out progui. I don't think he was using it before, but he had expressed interest.

I use the standard hotkeys and if I want to add certain units to a group I select & add them. ^^

yes or hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(CivilCentre|Corral|Crannog) = "Ctrl+C" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Dock|Defense_tower|Dog)&!Ship = "Ctrl+D" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Dog|Elephant)&!Support&!Archer = "Alt+D" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Elephant&Support) = "Alt+N" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Farmstead|Forge|Fortress) = "Ctrl+F" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Infantry&Archer|Elephant&Archer) = "Alt+A" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Infantry&Archer|Infantry&Javelineer|Elephant&Archer|Infantry&Slinger) = "Alt+A" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Infantry&Javelineer) = "Alt+J" hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Infantry&Pikeman|Spearman)&!Ship = "Alt+P" https://github.com/sl5net/autocivP#compare-ihot-intuitive-hotkeys-optional-and-nihot-non-intuitive-hotkeys-optional

Ok. Now we are repeating ourselves... -In other moments of this discussion (in another thread) it has been argued that the macro to automatically investigate technology makes sense because "forgetting it is a minor detail" or because "maybe you clicked on it but you just ran out of resources". - it is very difficult to know what mods each player uses until that player does host a game, it is impossible to know if he himself does not communicate it. I recently found out that LuchoMat/CryptoCamelius uses proGUI. I play with him every day and I found out about it by chance because someone else said so. -this is an ongoing discussion. I am a regular host and I do not prohibit proGUI players from playing my games. I'm also not in favor of proGUI player harrasment. but I think it would also be good to not get so defensive and take something from what is said -IMO this thread should be moved to Game Discussion. Bc it's not at all an off topic discussion

@Atrik seems i now found what i could do => restart 0ad the problem was/is: 1. that stats always pop 2. and now also happens in all kind of games. ... => when this happens i restart 0ad and then its seems repaired to the end of the day or idk exactly how long and why as i said it was heaping with navigate the map but now also when i opened the everywhere chat with ctrl + enter ( only enter is allied chat for me ). i should test if its not related to proGUI omg .. but at the moment the problem not exist. so i cannot test BTW i using: (k)ubuntu linux

Yes, you are probably searching for the autociv.session.minimap.expand.toggle hotkey.

@Atrikyou know eventually is some boonGUI / proGUI hotkeys are not configurable? example i want disable this shift+Tab think eventually

if you say autociv makes up for lacking game features, you could say the same for progui: it makes up for a faulty built-in autoqueue and for a particularly complicated batch training system. Besides, no one is saying progui is not an advantage, but every element on Seeh's list is.

What are the other functions of the autociv mod? I thought it only had to do with selecting civs before the game starts lol... The hotkeys are great. Also, you can set the limit on the number of dead bodies so that the game runs a little faster. I notice it on my computer.

Did you ever play around with the game speed? (Via the clock symbol in the top right corner.) I play on turtle speed (0.1x), mainly because I don't like losing units and my units are friggin' stupid; so I can leisurely zoom around, build, micro...

some of you know already that i play since a while with icons in name with a special meaning that will added automatically if i use this mods: ♤ proGUI mod, ♇ autocivP mod maybe thats a good transparency ? and also when i start a rated game then automatically a list of all mods i use are posted.

The main unfair advantage progui provides is reducing the necessary tasks of eco management and training. This means that a progui player can focus much more on overloading the multitasking ability of a player who has to actually manage their training and eco. I think the percent numerical advantage from progui mostly grows when you exploit it this way.

It really bothers me that if someone attacks a single unit on the woodline (or anywhere) the remaining units continue working as if nothing happend. One suggestion i heard was control groups, which i use! So a more specific example would be if Im attacking the opponent and they send a counter attack to my woodline, they can pick the women off 1 by one and the men continue to chop. I dont know im being attacked, because Im attacking/being attacked at their base. So the idea would be that when set in agressive stance they will stop what they are doing and fight within X distance of each other. So if one unit gets attacked woodline other units within X would fight alongside. Does that make sense? is it possible?

Agree. There are already units like this. But I'd really like to get away from the "introduce a new unique unit" for each civ as a means of differentiating. Playing the same with every civ until you spam one, unique unit for that civ at min 15 is a pretty boring meta. Now, if the unique unit creates a unique build order, like free champs, siege, or something then that's a different story. I would just like to see civs play more differently than each other.

I am translating through Google Translate, I hope the sentences are understandable. In the game as it is today, the main disadvantage, in my opinion, is that it lacks dynamics. The game more or less goes like this: each side develops as fast as it can, then when it has a siege weapon it simply makes a general attack of the whole army, whoever developed faster wins. It takes all the strategy and thinking out of the game, you just have to learn how to develop quickly and not waste people and time, and that's almost the whole game. For example, if one decides to send 20% of the force to make a surprise raid, and they succeed, and destroy the opponent's economy, it does not help because his 100% will crush your 80%, you will be left with 0% and he will be left with about 50%. He will conquer all of your part, and you at best will conquer his part only to lose later to the large army he still has left. My suggestions on the matter: 1. Fortresses and watchtowers are stronger 2. The control power of the soldiers will be smaller as they move away from their area, so that it will be necessary to conquer step by step, and not simply go straight to the opponent's base and finish the game.

For me the lowest is turtle at 0.1 speed? But that might be more comfy anyway because commands are for the next turn (in mp some more), so with 0 speed you won't see the results of your action until you speed up again.

Wow your doc is op! But I guess I'm not comfortable using more then my ~25 hotkeys , I'll mostly click on the gui like a noob.