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Now for things that I knew were off but had to source more carefully, or things that I found by chance while doing that. This time I quoted some sources, for those interested in reading (didn’t do it for info that got long ago).   PART II:   Simple things that should be: -Syssition should be Pheideition: Syssition is much more commonly found, but it’s not the Spartan name, the “term Spartans used for the public mess was pheideition (IG 5.1.128.13; 150.1; 155.6) or pheidition (IG 5.1.1507.1, cf. van Wees 2018, 237). Athenian authors called it phidition, or sometimes syssition. Alkman also mentions the word andreion (Alkman 98 Page), while Xenophon uses syskenion (Xen. Lak. Pol. 5.2; for more on terminology, see Bielschowsky 1869, 9–13; Lavrencic 1992, 12–16; Rundin 1996, 207 n. 47). Plutarch explains that the common meals (syssitia) were called andreia by the Cretans and phiditia by the Lacedaemonians”, Spartan History, State and Society, by R. Kulesza.   Simple things that could be: -Helot Economy could be Revolt Suppression: in general, better if techs relate to things during the game period, while civ. bonuses. to things that come from before. In this case I thought about the Great Helot Revolt of 464 BC. -Handicraft and Advanced Handicraft could be Bell Krater and Megarian Bowl: these generic names could be substituted by actual pottery types, which appeared after 400 BC and 323 BC, respectively. This also brings the issue of what would happen with a very different civilisation: I think it would be nice for them to have slightly different bonuses, given that techs would be along the same lines, but different. -Periplous (flanking manoeuvres) could be Aulētēs (Piper): periplous is just a manoeuvre (one of many), it’s like having a “galloping” tech in the Stable. Pipers weren’t really necessary before triremes.  -Ship Cladding could be Lead Sheathing, and come after Undergirding Cables: undergirding cables are from at least the 5th century BC, and it would be hard to find anything related to hull integrity between the beginning of the game and that. I’m not sure what is exactly meant by ship cladding, I could only find lead sheathing in the 3rd century BC, although I’m not sure if for triremes, but maybe that detail doesn’t matter. A source I used is Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World, by L. Casson. -Iron Plow, Gather Training and Fertiliser could be Terraces, Green Manure and Water Wheel: these don’t seem relevant or interesting for the period. On the other hand, terraces seem to have appeared early in the Classical period, green manure by the end of the 4th century BC, and the water wheel around the 3rd century BC. I’d remove the last one for Sparta since I don’t think there's evidence for it, but maybe give them a Kleroi civ. bonus, explained later. -Improved fletching, iron arrowheads and trilobate arrowheads could be bodkin arrowheads, trilobate arrowheads and pyramidal arrowheads: how and when was fletching improved, exactly? Iron arrowheads are from many centuries before the game. All give damage bonuses, and “with the exception of the three-edged rhomboid arrowheads, which appeared in Greece from the 6th century, were in wide use in the 5th century and declined during the 4th century BCE, the rest of the categories – bodkin, three-edged with barbs, and pyramidal – belong to types that appeared from the end of the 5th century BCE and were used widely through-out the 4th c. BCE”, Bow and Arrowheads from Ancient Macedonia, by I. Bellas. -Fishing Nets could be Murex Fishing, to get extra metal, only for Sparta: nets have existed for thousands of years. I propose this tech for obtaining metal, alongside food, when fishing. Spartans should get their food mostly from farming, while for fishing, “despite this dearth of good harbours, there were still of course Perioikoi who engaged in fishing and trade. The economic significance of fishing in the Mediterranean world generally is often grossly inflated (...). There is, however, one marine resource, the murex mollusc (trunculus or brandaris), which merits special mention (...) ‘royal purple’, obtained by processing the milky secretions of the murex (...). Its production in antiquity was primarily associated with the Phoenicians of Tyre, but among the Greeks the Lakonians and Tarentines were leading producers”, Sparta and Lakonia, by P. Cartledge. -Fishing Nets could be Rolled/Folded Sinkers, for other Greeks: I found the “appearance of these types of net weights in the second half of the 5th century BC”, and “leads made using a rolled sheet in a cylindrical shape are the oldest, while those made using a folded sheet did not appear until the end of the 4th century BC”, although for Athens and others, not Sparta. I think I read this on Ancient Nets and Fishing Gear, by T. Bekker-Nielsen and D.B. Casasola. -Salt Curing could be Tarichos Trade, but not for Sparta: salt curing has existed for thousands of years, only around the 5th century BC salted fish, or tarichos, became a staple food, although for Athens and others, not Sparta. -Gardens and Manors could be Sewerage and Peristyle Courtyards, but not for Sparta: those things appear in archeology at the time of the game for Athens and others, while Sparta had only simple drainage systems and houses. Those bonuses are for more population with time anyway, which doesn’t make a lot of sense with Sparta. They should go for quality, not quantity. -Wooden Shields, Metal Rim and Improved Shield Alloys could be Molded Greave, Cord Handle and Shield Apron: the present techs don’t make much sense as developments for the time period. Regarding the greave, by “the later sixth century it had been shaped to fit the leg as closely as possible”, the shield’s handle went from a piece of leather to “a cord all round the shield” to have “plenty of spare cord if it should break”, and the leather apron “often attached in the period after the Persian Wars to the lower rim of the hoplite shield. This probably supplemented the greaves in their function, as a barrier against missiles”, Arms and Armor of the Greeks, by A.M. Snodgrass. -Spolas and Linothorax could be Transitional Cuirass and Muscle Cuirass: Spolas and Linothorax should give price and mobility bonuses, not hack armor ones. The preceding bell cuirass had another successor, transitional cuirass, and later muscle cuirass, which seem to me better candidates for hack bonuses, along mobility ones, since it was the actual aim. In addition, new helmet types could give FOV bonuses. During the later 5th century BC they actually abandoned most armor, and adopted the exomis, a tunic. -Xiphos, Iron Weapons and Carburisation could be Carburisation, Quenching and Tempering: all give damage bonuses. The Xiphos and iron weapons appeared too early. Even intentional carburisation seems to be early. The techs I propose refer to very early steel, and evolved mostly in parallel, but an exact timing is really hard to get, with early examples of everything appearing before the start of game, but a more consistent use after it. Still, while there’s very limited evidence (and considerable debate), I’ve found: “the carbon content (...) could be increased by carburization (...). Steel was not only harder than iron; its hardness could be further enhanced by quenching (...), and the resulting brittleness moderated by tempering .(...) welding hard steel sections into or onto relatively soft and bendable iron bodies, clearly demonstrating a high level of understanding of different material properties, and the ability to differentiate between iron and steel (...). Although Greek and Roman craftsmen were unable to melt and cast iron during this period, blacksmiths were able to weld together individual pieces of iron and/or steel”, Metallurgy, Greece and Rome, by T. Rehren. The much earlier Odyssey states that “a blacksmith plunges a screaming great axe blade or adze into cold water, treating it for temper, since this is the way steel is made strong”, but this is sometimes interpreted as simple cooling, which seems weird to me because of what’s actually said, but for now I have no better ideas.   Changes that have been already proposed: -The role of trade could be reduced, for Sparta: mostly to enhance civilisation differentiation: “Lakonia, then, was remarkably self-sufficient in useful rocks and minerals as well as agricultural potential, and overseas trade in essentials was relatively unimportant”. “On the west coast of Messenia the best natural harbour was of course Navarino Bay (ancient Pylos), but the Spartans made little or no effort to develop its strategic or commercial potential”, Sparta and Lakonia, by P. Cartledge. -Stable techs could be reconsidered, for Sparta: apparently the Spartans gave importance to horse racing, but didn’t have a big horse breeding program like other Greeks, who could also have a spiked rollers tech for more speed, given that “was beginning to be introduced to Greece (...) for the sides of the horse's mouth”, Arms and Armor of the Greeks, by A.M. Snodgrass. Also, the Xiphos “was eclipsed by the appearance of a more specialized cutting weapon”, the Kopis, which could be a hack bonus tech, being a curved sword recommended for cavalry (by Xenophon for example), but probably not for Sparta. -Not allowing fields near the CC: this was discussed at some point for some civs, for realism, and would end making Sparta way more realistic. Actually, I was thinking that blocks of clustered buildings should not be bigger than a given area, since houses are otherwise abused as defensive structures, rendering palisades and walls useless. -Siege tech and units should be reconsidered, for Sparta, and siege engines should be built (mostly) on the field: as proposed by many, I’d leave the (Siege) Workshop for Engineers, techs, and some simple siege units, but the Engineers should build the bigger engines on location, among other things (like bridges, trenches, traps, as already suggested, and depending on each civ.). They could also give build and repair bonuses. Engineer Heroes like Archimedes for Syracusians (if added) would be nice, able to build unique siege engines (the Claw at least). Spartan unit and tech availability should be revised down maybe, I’ll leave a longer discussion on siege engines en general for later (if ever).   Other changes that could be considered: -Kleroi could be a civ. bonus: the kleroi were the Spartiate land allotments where helots lived and farmed. Also considering that their farmlands were among the most fertile, this bonus could give cheaper fields, to compensate for not having the latest agricultural tech. -The role of fortifications could be reduced for Spartans, and some things changed, for Greeks in general: there’s a lot to disentangle here. A bit in general (mostly about Athenians, Boeotians, Messenians, and others, and then it should be decided what to remove for Sparta, all using Ancient Greek Fortifications, by N. Fields): —Towers could have some changes: First, “the building decree of 307/306 BC not only covers repairs to the existing brickwork but also gives specifications for rebuilding the City Wall, including the roofing of the wall-walk or parodos (...) as the simplest means of protecting from the elements the small torsion-spring catapults, probably bolt-shooters, mounted on the curtains: the Athenians were certainly building torsion artillery by 306/305 BC” (later stating “not been invented before the turn of the 4th century BC”). Non-torsion catapults are also mentioned. Then, if one wants to be more historically accurate, “around 500 BC a major innovation, perhaps borrowed from Near-Eastern sources, appears with the addition of two-storeyed towers”, “rectangular in shape” and “with a covered chamber in the second storey and an open fighting platform protected by a parapet at roof level”, and had “the second chamber at parodos level with arrow slits. They were not, therefore, designed to house catapults, but as battle-stations for archers”. If one wanted to use catapults, "the lower chamber was not for catapults - these were housed in the fenestrated upper chamber - but for archers”, thus these catapult towers “dispensed with the fighting-platform roof and instead employed a gabled roof, which was easier to make watertight and thus keep machines dry”, and they had a larger minimum range. A “five-storey tower” is mentioned, but not much is said, while “towers of semicircular plan were stronger, but more difficult to construct. They also had the advantage of providing defenders with better fields of vision and fire”. It’s also said when a “solid base” is used. To implement things properly would require many types of towers, I think the simplest way is to make the Sentry Tower look like a small Stone Tower, and the Stone Tower would be a larger (semi)cylindrical version of that. I would remove Sentries, Crenellations, Arrow Shooters (all should be there already), and Murder Holes (mostly anachronistic, and that’s why multiple towers were built in range of each other), and the Arrow Slits and Catapult Windows techs could be added instead, or if possible in the future they could be mutually exclusive building upgrades (a concept discussed before, and would allow more types of building without overpopulating the construction panel), the latter one giving the look of the Sentry Tower. A Peripoloi (Patrols) tech could be added for either FOV or range, since they were garrisons for the border forts and watchtowers to patrol the mountainous borderlands, particularly during and after the 4th century BC. A change from Sturdy Foundations to Solid Base would seem unnecessary (unless quoting sources is wanted), although Iron Clamps could be considered (which is what the icon shows, and “these were set in lead and can be found all over the Near East, dating from the 5th century BC”, A History of Metallurgy, by R.F. Tylecote), but I’m not sure if they were used in these cases, just that they were used in other cases, so it would be weird as a tower tech. —Palisades, Walls and Fortresses could have some changes: since “materials employed in Greek fortifications may be divided into two main groups: sun-dried mud-brick on a stone socle, and walls built entirely of stone. Completion in mud-brick unquestionably saved a great deal of time and money”, Palisades could be upgraded to mud-brick walls. Since “restoration work to include binding the decaying brickwork with 'wooden baulks'” is mentioned, a Wooden Baulks tech for resistance bonus could be added. Regarding stone walls, “battlements were probably in the form of a crenellated parapet that protected a parodos”, but this seems to have been the case for a long time, and that the parodos “required a more durable paving of slabs. The Athenian inscription of 307/306 BC ordains that the parodos and other portions subjected to wear be given a hard covering (possibly stone) imposed on a 'finger-thickness of sieved earth'”. Proteichisma was an outer stone wall and ditch, since “with the development of mechanical warfare by the Macedonians the function of combined ditch and breastwork is best seen as a more positive countermeasure, other than by sallying forth and physically destroying them”. Dipylon was a double gate that would act as a trap. Fortresses are kind of “imagine we cluster walls and towers here”, I find its techs (Will to Fight, Murder Holes and Professional Garrisons) uninteresting, maybe techs like Stone Parodos (number or rate of arrows bonus), Proteichisma (resistance bonus, or aura to slow down units or only siege engines) and Dipylon (number or rate of arrows bonus) for Fortresses and/or Stone Walls could be considered.   I think Spartans should have less techs, and be more self-sufficient (although most of my changes are just renamings), for realism and differentiation. Part III will take me quite a while because I have nothing prepared yet, although I came across some things already.

Man, you could be the one that makes the "icon tooltips" option for the game, that's an amazing start.

Great stuff! Very clear interface. - Could that be extended with a "compare" view? (we typically have discussions on actual stats for unit 1 of civ A vs that unit 2 of civ, or these questions "how do I counter xyz") Could this be integrated into the "Learn-to-Play" section? If any possible accessing the actual valid stats in the very game version it is called from? (so whatever balance changes are introduced in the future , this view would always be correct)

This is a 4v4 that went a long time. The player I_am_groot went OOS. He did not rejoin before the OOS happened. i_am_groot_oos.zip

Thanks I was looking for this a while ago.