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I'm on a forum a lot and I had miss both your posts still. I only dug into the issue when realizing the bug myself. Since games can have diplo turned off, there is a small chance this bug could have even made it to next release unnoticed even... This is a formal invitation to help on git by opening tickets when you encounter such bugs..

Looks like the latest SVn update solved this issue. Thank you very much!

Phantastic - it seems the latest SVN update solved this issue!

Just some very basic consideration (non historical of course): My first reaction was "Anorganic entities like ships or siege engines actually cannot learn, which is the basic conditions to move upwards on the elite training ladder", but the crews operating them can and these are in our case part of the virtual anorganic unit. Like, a good artillery or sailing/rowing crew can move quicker and aim and hit targets much better than newbies. Therefore it does make sense. I believe, auto repair (self-healing) is something that would realistically be feasible only ashore for ships, e.g. at a shipyard at best - and it does cost resources (wood and metal). For siege engines there were no depots, instead I guess they were built near the battlefield. So repair is done by other units.

Sure, I guess after I finish with the coming two parts for the Athenians I'll gather all my hopefully non-controversial naming improvements (and icon proposals?) and do that.

oh yes, how I love charging into town with my cavalry and killing a bunch of pregnant women.

Huh... I was kinda thinking maybe it could be implemented as a type of unit for Athens. Maybe I can try modding that and see how it goes.

Thanks for your concern . We've already resolved this.

Correct, except helots in vanilla have same stats as pretty much all other javelineer units which doesn't make as much sense to me and dont bother with @Arup He talks a lot, but wont ever try anything

Yes, for sure you would already have Perioeci hoplites, so it's ok if you leave the javelineers just as helots (like in vanilla!).

Based off of one of the articles you sent, it sounds like most Perioeci were still equip as hoplites. That's why we gave helots both jav and slinger options. We have cretan archers but not until p3 i dont think. And theracian peltasts available p2.

I suggest you open a ticket for all these name changes in the gitea @Vantha or @wowgetoffyourcellphone might help bring these changes to life

For Sparta, helot slingers seem fine, for javelineers being Perioeci instead would be possible, but maybe you wanted to keep them as weak as possible. Mercenary Cretan archers later on are also a possibility, which could balance what should be their weak cavalry and very slow infantry, but fast when forming up. For Athens, as proposed, just substitute slingers with archers, which is very important considering the literature quoted (in particular that archers "were usually mercenaries, often from Crete, but Athens was an exception. The Athenians had native foot-archers"). In Part II I'll mention I think they should be a somewhat "fast" civ early on (for Greek standards), in contraposition to Sparta.

@Thalatta as the self proclaimed biggest worshipper of Athena im hurt you did not ping me into this topic before

This is a Replay of 4 Petra Bots on this Map-Version "Rome-with-Crossing12b". All bot settings are: "Very hard, balanced". It is here as a riddle. There is no winner determined yet, although the outcome is pretty clear. But the question is: "Why is Rome not defeated yet?" [should be defeated around: 1:11 - 1:12] I will post the solution in some days.... took me also some time to figure it out. PS: It is not always the same bot winning. It depends a lot who is the first running into a crossed-T, like "Gallic Invader 1" at Min 14. Sure this makes a huge difference. Well the first uploaded files were wrong, they were the replay of my research to solve the riddle. metadata.json commands.txt

I'm sending a message in a bottle out to sea. Hey everyone, I'm working on a campaign for 0 A.D. called Burning Heart. I want to brainstorm a cover for it. Not an Age of Empires 2 copy, but something with that same vibe, that feeling of power in the image. Anyone down to collab on this? That'd be great.

Okey, I restarted upping this map a little further. So here is a recent version with in total 4 cross-points over the Tiber, which changes the character of the "battle of the Tiber map" even further. In the original it was mostly: "All against Rome" which has the worst starting conditions, why I started to work on the map .Now with AI everyone is more or less fighting his neighbor. Is it possible to add setup options on a scenario map like the "balanced" Button on Mainland balanced? I would like to have some option eg. some different setups of treasure? Rome-with-Crossing12b.xml Rome-with-Crossing12b.pmp

Not sure what I was thinking yet. I mean for helots: "Helots have 25% less range, wider spread, and 10% less damage than normal citizen infantry, but the same gather rates as civilians. They have 75 HP and cost only 40 food and 10 wood or stone. They do not receive forge techs." Sparta has both "javelineers" and "slinger" helots, the Javs are not peltasts though (no shields.) Athenians have Peltats, Slingers, Thracian Peltasts and Rhodian Slingers. Way back when we removed slingers and added archers, so have some of the framework for that. I may still keep regular slingers as an option too to unlock, but the archers would come standard. These are the things I like to discuss on discord So even though its pretyt dead, maybe you could join and we can go back and forth with these things and @ThePoshBarbarian Is welcome too!

First, champions is quite a misnomer. One would be hard pressed to find elite troops being called like that in any serious source. They are usually called, well, "elite". There's of course the issue that ranks are "Basic", "Advanced" and "Elite", the first two again terms that one will basically never find to describe how experienced units are. I think better would be "Recruit", "Seasoned" and "Veteran", all terms I've come across multiple times in sources. Second, what about ships and engines being able to be "champions"? One could make use of elite triremes for Athens for example, instead of making up things that weren't characteristic for them. I guess the main point of champions is to indicate that organic units do not work, but I think there's also a "good unit" implication being made that could be useful for a few inorganic units (they could also have some particular restriction or characteristic, like auto repair? Repair only at Dock/Arsenal? No repair? Whatever is balanced).

@Emacz you can always launch a missile more ineffectively. But what is it that you are thinking, exactly? What would be your Spartan and Athenian ranged units roster? The helots you are talking about are already psiloi, while trained Athenian "archers (toxotai) and lightly armed troops, generically called psiloi" (Dahm). Some sources (like Elliott and Rawlings) make a distinction between psiloi and peltasts, probably because of the latter's shield.

I have a lot of suggestions, i think i will start with Cimbrii (i'm tired and will continue later) There is amber in Jutland but i'm not sure they really had a monopoly, the Baltic was more important for this trade. I would not go as far as to say they have an axe tradition, axes are only mentioned with the women of the Ambrones. Main weapons seem to have been spears. Swords are important for elite cavalry and in a ceremonial role (seeresses executing prisoners). The women of the Ambrones used swords and axes, could it be swords were relatively common even with civilians? maybe (or it could be some of them were the aforementioned seeresses) As above spears could probably still be available, it was largely the most important weapon for all germans (and the Cimbri are described fighting in formation) Bows are not mentioned in any sources about Cimbri, but seem to appear in some Scandinavian finds (maybe could be auxiliaries instead). There is no evidence of greaves for Germans Shields could have a wooden spina, possibly wicker shields for skirmishers in first tier (but the later is a bit of speculation) I'm not sure they would have had that many Scandinavian auxiliaries (the Cimbri were already from Denmark so i assume you mean Norway or Sweden) Volcae and Helveti allies are more attested. Maybe they can have these in an allied camp instead or all German civs can recruit allied units from the Great Hall or similar building (with regular champions on the fortress). Also no evidence for German tattos in this period. Suiones and Rugii appear in later sources and dont seem to have joined the Cimbri The Scandinavian archers could maybe be included as allied units (if you want the civ to portray the larger region) but probably not champion. Infantry champions could be the Cimbrian front rank infantry who fought chained to each other probably champion spearmen since they did this to not break rank (alternatively the chains are a unique technology that provides an unique effect to champion infantry). They could also have swordsmen (A mix of single edged german swords and Celtic swords are found in Denmark) Maybe even some sort of champion axe raider as well like the current Germans(perhaps Ambrones, since at least their women used both axes or swords). Most plausible helmets would be Montefortino or Coolus Manheimn types Description of priestess Not much evidence for axe cavalry, i'd make it a cavalry spearman instead. For the cavalry we have the following description the helmets seem to have been decorated with animals (probably figurines like the ravens and boars on some celtic helmets) Breatsplate are almost certainly chainmail (Celtic influence, maybe captured Roman armor as well), and the long swords are probably Celtic style. Maybe replaced Caesorix with Lugius (little info on both, Lugius died in combat and Caesorix was captured). So my idea for Cimbri rosters (excluding possible allies)would be: Citizen Spear infantry (framea) Citizen Sword infantry (single edged Germanic sword) Citizen javelin infantry Citizen slinger? Citizen javelin cavalry Citizen spear cavalry (framea) Champion Cimbrian spearman (Celtic spear) Champion Sword infantry (Celtic sword) Champion Ambrones raider (axes and clubs) Champion Cimbrian sword cavalry (celtic sword) Champion seeress Tacitus' Germania: https://topostext.org/work/676 Plutarch's biography of Mariushttps://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Marius*.html Strabo's description of Cimbri https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/7B*.html