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Well, that makes me look like a big ol' fool. I take that back and apologize; I actually totally forgot about the market exploit, please forgive me. ...But talking about how the other side doesnt even want to have a real discussion is certainly not shifting the topic, right? Alright, but as long as 0ad is open source, you cant enforce anything really. If a cheater really wants to cheat, he can build the game with some of his own code injected. Now, making it so you would atleast have to do that "injection", to be able to cheat, would still be an effective deterrent for many cheaters, but if done wrongly, could also hurt the developement of "non-cheat"-mods, like GUI changes (even if they are just resizing buttons, you change the simulation folder afaik, so youd be flagged incompatible by the current modio rulings? So if we somehow made it impossible to play with mods flagged incompatible in modio, I couldnt make any changes to my gui, as harmless as they may be, without injecting it before building the game, which would be a significant detriment to the modding aspect of the game) [tl;dr: Restricting mods further hurts modding.] So enforcing a consensus (if we could reach one) is quite a challenge, isnt it? I agree with you. I would consider using autostart to be pretty embarrassing. Good thing the only cheat I use is autociv, which seems to be generally accepted. I was not trying to defend people using autostart (they shouldnt), but rather trying to lay out why I dont care whether they do. Some people take games too seriously and try to get any advantage they can, be it fair or not. Thats embarrassing for them, but as an opponent, I dont really care if its at the level of autostart (or proGUI), since the advantage they gain is so insignificant that it doesnt actually affect me at all. Now, if you dont use autostart or proGUI to gain an advantage, but rather to change how the game feels to you and maximise your fun, it even ceases to be embarrassing. This is an assumption that one player makes about 7 others. And when they find out they lost because someone was cheating, the answer is "chill out its just a game". Awesome argument guys. Ripping my comment about autostart out of context to make it appear like I was talking about all cheats doesnt make it look like you are actually... (The difference is, you have never lost because of autostart, while it is possible you lost because of other cheats. And thats why I wouldnt say "nobody cares" about the other cheats.) This is a very interesting argument. May I ask on what grounds you say that 1. Most players that encounter players with "cheats" (e.g. proGUI, autostart, autociv) are unaware of the cheats 2. The people that are aware of the cheats cant grasp the magnitude of advantage [because I think almost all of the consistent long-term players know about proGUI, autostart and ofc autociv. And I dont know any user of those cheats that likes to play against newbies that dont know about them. And that the autotrainer function provides any statistically relevant advantage still remains to be proven.]

Thanks for the reply. Since all garissoned soldiers add same fire power, now I think it's better to place melee units inside a building since they are greater in HP.

Hi @vanz, welcome to the forums. Any units with blades will obliterate rams, in dire need use women (daggers); swarming them also keeps them from reaching their targets. To get started you can lower the difficulty of the AIs or set their behavior so they won't crash your base. All garrisoned soldiers add the same amount of arrows.

Hello, newb here . Han is my favorite faction recently. I'm usually start the game with turtling and slow development, but AI always break my defense within 20 minutes. Especially when they started to using rams. What units can destroy rams quickly? Also, I still wondering about garrison and fire power. Does ranged units like archers and crosbowmen have advantage over melee units when they are inside a building, ships, and siege tower? Or all units just share same fire power based on their counts?

Too epic. lol for 2 min straight.

I don't do it because of any threats. I just believe that hosts being able to set their game rules is normal.

“Thanks for clarifying this, Atrik, that explains why I couldn’t find any campaign either. I’m also running 0 A.D. on Linux and thought I was missing a step. Good to know it’s not included by default. I’ll have a look at the mods you mentioned for some single-player content. Appreciate the info!”

It is true you (usually) do not use your mod when I host (or other hosts) tell you not to use it. But I would hardly say that doing this is changing your behavior to address other players’ concerns if you only do it under threat of a room ban.

For the record do play with host rules, so when @chrstgtr or other hosts ask me to, i don't use trainer. Probably another lie necessary to create the myth, so one need to revise the reality. The problem is just that not you couldn't get all hosts to do this but that's just another thing.

I'm using RC-3 and WIndows 11. The archers in Atlas editor look like this by default. I am not using any mods to change the graphics. Give that I am a total cosmic noob at Windows, I probably messed up something simple. Here are the logs and my user.cfg user.cfgcrashlog.txtcrashlog.dmpuserreport_hwdetect.txtsystem_info.txtmainlog.html

This is clearly wrong. @guerringuerrin has already pointed this out as "awareness." I would go further to say this is actually multitasking, which @borg- has already identified as the primary skill in R(eal)T(ime)S(trategy) games. It is also not just "repetitive meaningless actions." First, your mod doesn't repeat the same thing. It optizimies based on how many you can make to reach your ideal population composition. Without the mod, you would have to decide what batch size to make and of what units to make. At all times, do you know how many jav inf you have at all times? Do you know how many sword cav you have at any moment? Do you know how many slingers you need to make to reach your ideal population percentage? I don't know. But I can make guesses informed by experience (i.e., skill). Your mod does this all for you. If you truly want something to eliminate repetitive clicks then that already exists as part of the base game. You have created something that does more and creates a competitive advantage. Most importantly, you've been told other players don't like it and choosing to use it anyways

Indeed Boudica. Not even the market exploit is considered a cheat. Reza knows about quickstart, Seleucids knows reza considers it a cheat. I think its quite distasteful bringing up war or PTSD here. Reza had this stance before the war already. Reza probably doesn't really care but bringing this up does not show a interest in a reasonable discussion. Instead the sanity of the conversational partner is attacked.

Especially when half of the game's loop in the early to mid game is keeping your population up. Like, everyone practices getting to the 100 pop ASAP since it constitutes a major part of both economy and military gameplay. And here you have people who are automating it. It's wrong.

Not at all. Who said that I'm going to remain in SP forever? Also, I care about the game enough to defend the fair-play. And to call out those players who blatantly lie how something obviously unfair like an automation script "isn't cheating". Maybe I also want to win some fair games when I DO decide to play MP?

There is a skill on being aware of your military production and keeping your pop up. In fact, just yesterday a player told me he was using the autotrain feature because "it helps me keep up my population". And in the context of the (serious) discussion about this feature, sounds like an euphemism to say "it takes away brain time to come up with original strategies". Yeah, I mean the current training system is buggy in the way I've described. Is very different from a feature that instantly produces units according resources and housing available. In my opinion, you took automation to an extreme, and it does provide a clear advantage over those who don’t use that feature. And I feel frustrated that we can't even agree on that and the importance of fair play in a competitive environment. Cause might not be a super popular RTS but 0ad actually has a competitive community at some point. You’ve got a point here, as you never tried to keep your mod in the shadows, and I don’t think you’ve ever acted dishonestly. So accusing you of hiding it or being a cheater doesn’t add anything to the discussion. However, it’s currently impossible to know if someone is using it independently, and not everyone may be as honest as you in that regard and yeah, those are cheaters.

Truly. Especially the whataboutisms. Instead of defending the mods, its (understandably) easier to go on the offensive. I guess its also easier to contort the truth and put words in peoples' mouths that way.

All it does it reading user inputs in dedicated panel to issue existing engine command to train unit from buildings. Can't call it autotrainer? "auto" just means that relative to some anterior state, managing a certain aspect is either made easier, either handled by scripts or engine. Your script has as side-effect to re target closer units, it does mitigate baiting in addition to helping targeting "higher priority target". > Thin air Indeed, as you contributed to the myth that autosniping would be a very bad and shady and would kill 0ad, i understand that now that it's actually you who is developing could be bothering you. You should just admit you changed your mind. At least to yourself . My personal opinion about the autoqueue feature that was added to the main game is that it was a bad idea. Sorry if that sounds dismissive, but how can a SP player (as you say you are) jealous other players about what feature they use or not in the game? Why do you care about the introduction of features that you can always choose not to use, and that you don't even have to bother with the whole "it gives a competitive advantage to it's user" topic?

At this point, I no more believe that the cheaters are trying to have a reasonable discussion. It's just like "What could I write that would be reminiscent of an argument to possibly let me keep doing what I'm already doing?". Half of this is just trying to shift or relativize the topic, or telling fair players to either cheat too or go play elsewhere. Then, when a counter-argument is taken apart and proven as flawed, they will just repeat it unchanged in a new thread. Tell a lie often enough, right. Or, maybe even put the lie right in your bio. That way it gets automatically repeated after anything you write. Smart. So I see @Seleucids say "STOCKFISH DOESN'T CHEAT", and that's a really bold statement to put in your bio because of how hard it is to prove. Meanwhile, there are people like me who just do have the proof in the form of replays, eyewitness testimony, screenshots of chats discussing the usage of the mods (what is meant here by cheating anyway). So what is it now? It's just acting dumb and trolling.

Because the game is very fast paced, one of the advantages of 0ad, some automation features like this are good. But such features should not eliminate learning curves.

you are the one bugging here. All it does is use an existing system to tell units to attack higher preference units if they are attacking a low preference unit without orders. aoe2 does this, not sure about other games. It is perfectly intuitive, and it is exactly what would be expected of a preference system in UnitAI. You just made up "damage spreading" out of thin air. PRs go to the game for everyone, and they effect everyone equally. Making and distributing automation mods to be used against those that don't have them (incompatibility checks off) because you think the game design is bad is very different.

The very first (and obviously) reply after the linked comment was from Stan: My personal opinion about the autoqueue feature that was added to the main game is that it was a bad idea. The feature is justified on a grand-scale RTS such as Supreme Commander where the macro required is truly insane, but not in a classic style RTS game. From this, you can guess my opinion on all other similar modifications.

What then? "Autonomous retargeting and damage spreading"? Are you having a cognitive dissonance about it? Maybe it doesn't really work out well to develop a 0 click auto sniping after taking a strong stand against more manual features in some threads? Still don't think it's bad features beside that it's a bit complexifying unit behavior, just funny to see you bug out about it thoughts.

This seems like a fair solution which will allow some flexibility on the host side.

Yeah that is extremely unconvincing. If you wonder why players use it despite being insignificant that's a explanation. Doesn't aim to convince you to use it. Its because they want the juice without having to squeeze. That's it. No "adrenaline/timing/flow/buildup". This is a slander which you have said before. Stop repeating this lie that I have worked on autosniping. The pr is not related at all to autosniping at all and has been very successful from testing in the community mod.