Suggested change of MaxGatherers per animal group

[Obelix]

Fork of:

GurkenKhan has among others suggested to equalize the values of <MaxGatherers> per animal to 8, by asking „Could we maybe either scale it consistently or just say "whatever" and give'em all 8 slots?“ Actually the general value is 8 (specified in template_unit_fauna_hunt.xml), being derived by some special adjustments e.g. in the files templates/gaia/fauna_---.xml (insert following names):

• chicken has 5
• peacock has 5
• pig has 4
• sheep has 3
• goat has 2

 

17 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

The number of gatherer slots on animals don't seem to follow any logic I could discern. Chickens have 40 meat and 5 slots, for rabbits it's 50 and 8, while the much beefier sheep have 100 meat but only 3 slots; for deer its 100 and 8. Whatever meat rhinos and eles have, I'm quite certain they also have 8 slots.

Chickens and Peacocks spawn next to CCs but have different meat-<Max>: 40 to 50. This might be a case for the balancers ...

Pigs, sheeps, goats etc. can be trained, see e.g. fauna_pig_trainable.xml. I'd suggest to change the value of <MaxGatherers> of each trained animal to +1 of not trained animal. In the case of fauna_horse_trainable.xml it would be 9 then. This would be too high. Maybe a ultimative max of 8 could be established - or non-trained horses set to MaxGatherers=7.

This could be seen as a benefit from the training.

What do you think?

[chrstgtr]

13 minutes ago, Obelix said:

Fork of:

GurkenKhan has among others suggested to equalize the values of <MaxGatherers> per animal to 8, by asking „Could we maybe either scale it consistently or just say "whatever" and give'em all 8 slots?“ Actually the general value is 8 (specified in template_unit_fauna_hunt.xml), being derived by some special adjustments e.g. in the files templates/gaia/fauna_---.xml (insert following names):

• chicken has 5
• peacock has 5
• pig has 4
• sheep has 3
• goat has 2

 

Chickens and Peacocks spawn next to CCs but have different meat-<Max>: 40 to 50. This might be a case for the balancers ...

Pigs, sheeps, goats etc. can be trained, see e.g. fauna_pig_trainable.xml. I'd suggest to change the value of <MaxGatherers> of each trained animal to +1 of not trained animal. In the case of fauna_horse_trainable.xml it would be 9 then. This would be too high. Maybe a ultimative max of 8 could be established - or non-trained horses set to MaxGatherers=7.

This could be seen as a benefit from the training.

What do you think?

Honestly, the collection rate on animals is so high that it won't make a difference on anything except elephants. Even for elephants it won't make a big difference. 

[Gurken Khan]

@chrstgtr For far off sheep for example it makes a (bit of a) difference. I won't (or even can't) build a farmstead for three sheep hanging around in the middle of nowhere, and if I can have a pack of horsies just grab those 300 food that's much more appealing than having to micro it because of their meager 3 slots. Plus those slot numbers just don't make any sense to me; why would sheep have less slots than chickens or rabbits?

 

1 hour ago, Obelix said:

I'd suggest to change the value of <MaxGatherers> of each trained animal to +1 of not trained animal.

I don't think the anatomy of trained and not-trained animals would differ enough to justify a difference in slot numbers.

Personally I prefer the "whatever" approach and give all animals 8 slots an be done with it.

[chrstgtr]

5 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

@chrstgtr For far off sheep for example it makes a (bit of a) difference. I won't (or even can't) build a farmstead for three sheep hanging around in the middle of nowhere, and if I can have a pack of horsies just grab those 300 food that's much more appealing than having to micro it because of their meager 3 slots. Plus those slot numbers just don't make any sense to me; why would sheep have less slots than chickens or rabbits?

 

I don't think the anatomy of trained and not-trained animals would differ enough to justify a difference in slot numbers.

Personally I prefer the "whatever" approach and give all animals 8 slots an be done with it.

Sure. But it basically never makes sense to hunt those. And if there are 3 of them then it would only matter if you have a bunch of cav because they will go to other nearby hunt (or you should just shift-click them). 

But yes, this should be unionized. It just isn't very important because it will have a very minimal effect. 

[Darkcity]

It seems like a backlog kind of issue, when someone is not working on something important they can do this patch. But, not a issue that need attention becasue no one really bothered about it. Its good to have kind of thing.

[Player of 0AD]

10 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

Honestly, the collection rate on animals is so high that it won't make a difference on anything except elephants. Even for elephants it won't make a big difference. 

That doesn't convince me. A low limit on corral animals can make corrals impossible to run with infantry or women. Or can you convince me that I'm wrong about that?

[chrstgtr]

39 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

That doesn't convince me. A low limit on corral animals can make corrals impossible to run with infantry or women. Or can you convince me that I'm wrong about that?

Who knew this limitation existed before this post? When was the last time you saw someone use corrals with inf or women? When they did, did they have some idle inf/women while others were actively collecting meat? When was the last time you saw someone actually hurt by the scenario I described in my third question? Does good game design require corrals to be useful for women/infantry?

 

My guess is the answer to those questions show that this isn't actually a problem. Feel free to post a replay that shows otherwise. 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by chrstgtr

[Player of 0AD]

6 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

Who knew this limitation existed before this post?

I did

6 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

When was the last time you saw someone use corrals with inf or women?

I tried this year

6 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

When they did, did they have some idle inf/women while others were actively collecting meat?

Yes. As corral animals dont have 8 slots, you can't operate corrals with inf/women.

6 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

Does good game design require corrals to be useful for women/infantry?

Yes

[chrstgtr]

4 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

I did

I tried this year

Yes. As corral animals dont have 8 slots, you can't operate corrals with inf/women.

Yes

Then you knew more than me and have an opinion on game design issue where I don't care. 

Feel free to match a patch--I don't think anyone will oppose you. 

[LetswaveaBook]

On 27/08/2022 at 9:31 AM, chrstgtr said:

Who knew this limitation existed before this post?

I guess that actually most of the curious or attentive players noticed this. Other resources have similar limitations.

On animals the limit can be noticed if you try to use more than 8 cavalry to collect the food of an elephant and you see some of them idling. Also if there is say only 1 goat left and you send a 3 or more of cavalry to it, then only 2 units only execute the command.

Most often, the limit is fine. Who would think it is efficient or useful to send 10 cavalry to gather from a goat that has only 70 food on it? If you gather with 8 cavalry from an elephant, you might wanted to use more, but actually 8 cavalry also gather quite quickly.