real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4942 I have had several players ask me to propose a hero with some elephant bonus for Mauryas. Because of the historical sources I found, and because of the contradiction of the existing auras (garrison for discount vs healing), I think chanakya is a suitable hero for the first global elephant bonus: 15% faster attack rate, 10% faster movement speed for elephant units. If we want to restore the technology discount aura, it is much more logical that this aura should be attributed to ashoka. This will be an interesting hero: the healing is powerful as it is for maintaining a large infantry army the global ele aura allows for more effective ele attacks and may be distant from the hero and the aformentioned infantry (contrast this with the sele ele hero). Giving a little extra speed to elephants improves effectiveness and survivability especially for ele archers. good synergy with elephant archers by combining healing (to preserve ranked ele archers) and the new elephant bonus. I hope there is time for this aura as well as the minor fix for two other civs I just wrote: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4941 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Not sure I see the historical justification for this one, vis a vis Chanakya. He was an economic advisor, moral teacher, philosopher, and vizier (administrator). Why not give an elephant aura to the elephant hero? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakfastBurrito_007 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Because the elephant hero trains archer champions it is better to have it in low risk situations if you want to keep him alive. If the elephant bonus was added to the ele hero it would be impractical to make use of both bonuses at the same time. The healer hero usually stays with a mass of units due to his healing bonus, so that works very well with a global ele bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: He was an economic advisor, moral teacher, philosopher, and vizier (administrator). Why not give an elephant aura to the elephant hero? He was a prime minister as well and importantly wrote chapter 32 which is all about the training of elephants. Its new and different to give a non ele hero an ele bonus. My thoughts are that the ele hero (chanragupta maurya) should have a more "general purpose" aura affecting soldiers (and elephants as well) in some radius. The issue with the existing auras is that the technology discount was tedious to use (garrison in each building), while also being incompatible with his healing abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said: He was a prime minister as well and importantly wrote chapter 32 which is all about the training of elephants. Vizier = prime minister, but w/e. Yes, out of 100 chapters he dedicated 1 to elephants. Pretty flimsy. Why does a Mauryan elephant bonus have to be with a hero aura anyway? Can't it just be a general civ bonus or tech? 57 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said: The issue with the existing auras is that the technology discount was tedious to use (garrison in each building), while also being incompatible with his healing abilities. Maybe make it less tedious? Also, check out DE's version of Chanakya. You might like it (hint: look at his production panel). Edited February 16, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Can't it just be a general civ bonus or tech? Well since there is no hero currently that affects eles, it could be a civ bonus. The only issue would be we would have to avoid giving an aura to chandragupta that might stack too much with the civ bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Make technology bonus global: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4943 Add attack rate and move speed bonuses to "elephant tradition" civ bonus. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4944 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) On 16/02/2023 at 7:37 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Why not give an elephant aura to the elephant hero? Looks like the idea came full circle Anyone have thoughts on this aura? 1- global 15% attack rate for elephants, 10% movement speed 2- 60m radius: Non-elephant soldiers +10% damage, +1 armor of all types For bonus 2, I could make it only infantry or non-elephant, as it could be too OP with ele archers. -> Done, I made it apply to non-elephant soldiers. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4952 Edited February 21, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 Ok, there was some disagreement with naming Chandragupta's first aura "Great Standing Army." What do people think of the new name "Empire Builder" (Thanks to @wowgetoffyourcellphone) https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4952 And also, any last comments on the bonus itself? aura 1: +10% damage, +1 armor for non-elephant soldiers, 60m aura 2: +15% attack rate, +10% speed for elephant units, global Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) I have no problems with your suggestions here. They seem a bit conventional though. I wish we could go through and reevaluate all of the hero auras. I think all heroes could have a primary and secondary aura. 1st aura is some kind of ranged bonus (strong, but focused), 2nd one is global (weak, but global). Then one of these is military-focused and the other is economic/training/building/etc. If you want 2 military auras, then they are weaker than if you only have 1; same thing with a completely economics-focused hero. With that in mind, maybe something like this: "Empire Builder" Global All buildings -10% build time and resource cost "Great Standing Army" Ranged: 60m All Human Soldiers +10% attack rate All War Elephants +10% additional attack damage and speed Edited February 25, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 12 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: I have no problems with your suggestions here. They seem a bit conventional though. I wish we could go through and reevaluate all of the hero auras. I think all heroes could have a primary and secondary aura. 1st aura is some kind of ranged bonus (strong, but focused), 2nd one is global (weak, but global). Then one of these is military-focused and the other is economic/training/building/etc. If you want 2 military auras, then they are weaker than if you only have 1; same thing with a completely economics-focused hero. With that in mind, maybe something like this: "Empire Builder" Global All buildings -10% build time and resource cost "Great Standing Army" Ranged: 60m All Human Soldiers +10% All War Elephants +10% additional attack and speed It would be interesting to be able to switch them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 @wowgetoffyourcellphone In Delenda Est your Heroes go from being pedestrian to equestrian. It would be interesting if some could go from having a civil role to a military one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 26, 2023 Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 7 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: I have no problems with your suggestions here. They seem a bit conventional though. Honestly, I'd say it's not very conventional. Its one of 2 attack rate auras. Also its the only global buff for eles. Also, I am not aware of any "soldier" auras that affect both armor and damage. The bonus affects a archer/spear + elephant composition like no other hero does and this is a signature comp for maury. I think the Mauryans need a more conventional hero for more general purpose fighting. The two existing ones are quite niche. 7 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: If you want 2 military auras, then they are weaker than if you only have 1; same thing with a completely economics-focused hero. Sorry if I don't really follow the logic here. I think having a eco focused hero and a military focused hero would be better, because the user tailors their strategy towards what the heroes enable. In other words, choosing a hero is a strategic choice. If the heroes all have low-impact eco and military bonuses (compared to higher-impact combined military or combined eco bonuses), I think we lose a lot of strategy. Now, I have done combined eco/military heroes and I think they are good, but to make 1 military, 1 eco bonus a standard for all heroes doesn't sound fun. I'd say some "conventional" heroes to change would be the roman heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrstgtr Posted February 26, 2023 Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 8 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Empire Builder" Global All buildings -10% build time and resource cost These types of heroes never get used. Would want it to be way, way better than this. Other would be fine to me. Also like @real_tabasco_sauce’s suggestion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted February 26, 2023 Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 offtopic: sometimes it is necessary to penalize the construction in the first phase, and that they build faster with new technologies, that was also in the AOE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 5 hours ago, chrstgtr said: These types of heroes never get used. Would want it to be way, way better than this. Other would be fine to me. Also like @real_tabasco_sauce’s suggestion The hero would have both auras, the military one and non-military one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrstgtr Posted February 26, 2023 Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: The hero would have both auras, the military one and non-military one. Ah, i see. But to be honest, eco/building auras aren't very useful when you get hero in late game Edit: to be useful they would have to have a big enough of an impact that a player will go out of their way to phase super quickly. I imagine that would be way, way more than the 10% you have listed. Edited February 26, 2023 by chrstgtr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 4 hours ago, chrstgtr said: Edit: to be useful they would have to have a big enough of an impact that a player will go out of their way to phase super quickly. I imagine that would be way, way more than the 10% you have listed. I see your point. In my head I'm thinking of DE's heroes, where you get access to them from the very beginning. Perhaps a -50% build time bonus in the City Phase would make it impactful. In that case, I'd make it ranged and not global. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted February 26, 2023 Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 Ok, but what makes https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4952 bad? There are already 2 very niche heroes for Maurya, one of which has an eco/military combination as @wowgetoffyourcellphone discusses. The other is a purely economic hero. It makes perfect sense to have a more militaristic hero in the form of chandragupta. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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