To fix a bug or not - chasing melee cav can fail to play the attack sound

[wraitii]

Hey everyone,

Bit of a weird topic: @ValihrAnt has reported a bug in A25 that melee cav chasing ranged cav can fail to play their attack sound. The attack goes through, but no sound. See e.g. this gif here: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4154#177397
As it turns out, the bug is also present in A24.

Now, as you can see, if we fix this, chasing becomes less effective. This is a balance change that might have unexpected consequences.

So I ask -> should we fix this for A25 or should we wait for A26 & possibly make some corresponding balance changes?

[LetswaveaBook]

First I would like to say, suppose it is solved.

Then an opposing unit attacks while chasing a fleeing unit. If the fleeing unit runs all over the map, you would get a lot of attack sounds. That might be annoying.

[chrstgtr]

Comment from patch copied below. 

 

For balancing reasons, I prefer the left version, which I understand is the current SVN setup. Right looks like it will be a big nerf to melee cav in cav fights and allow units like archer cav to too easily escape.

Also, if this bug was already present in a24 then the fact that we are just now learning about it indicates that it isn't a huge/common/frequent problem.

I say just leave it for now and deal with it later. Then again, I don't play with sound, so I'm not a good judge of how problematic the lack of sound currently is.

Edit: what would the balancing fix be? Make melee units faster? That seems like it might have unintended consequences against inf.

[ValihrAnt]

41 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

Edit: what would the balancing fix be? Make melee units faster? That seems like it might have unintended consequences against inf.

What the patch does is just make them play the anim longer before moving again.

41 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

Also, if this bug was already present in a24 then the fact that we are just now learning about it indicates that it isn't a huge/common/frequent problem.

A24 had the issue of cav play just being very weak which of course does lead to them not being used and stuff like this not being noticed. A25 from what I've played is more aggressive and cavalry are a more viable option so it should be more visible.

41 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

For balancing reasons, I prefer the left version, which I understand is the current SVN setup. Right looks like it will be a big nerf to melee cav in cav fights and allow units like archer cav to too easily escape.

In normal fights it doesn't change anything, just in chasing. Unit bumping has made melee better able to chase so this should be a pretty fair trade off.

[chrstgtr]

18 minutes ago, ValihrAnt said:

In normal fights it doesn't change anything, just in chasing. Unit bumping has made melee better able to chase so this should be a pretty fair trade off.

My primary concern is that this will make Rome/Mace unable to fight off a camel rush because the chasing spear cav won't be able to do enough damage against fleeing camels. The gif suggests that this patch will be about a 50% nerf in that context. I don't think the patch will be too impactful in other fights. If you don't think that this will render spear cav unable to stop a camel rush then I am fine with the patch. 

[ChronA]

Since this bug fix could have significant balance implications that should be compensated for by (possibly quite pervasive) stat adjustments, it would be better to sit on it until after A25 drops. However it should absolutely be fixed in A26. That sound & animation bug makes the game looks really unpolished.

[wraitii]

Think I'll edge towards not fixing for A25 indeed. TBH it's a relatively rare situation.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

15 hours ago, wraitii said:

Now, as you can see, if we fix this, chasing becomes less effective. This is a balance change that might have unexpected consequences.

Ultimate solution would be to add move-attack (attack while moving; sword cav swings his sword while his horse is still chasing), but that may be one of those features no one knows how to implement.

[wraitii]

7 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Ultimate solution would be to add move-attack (attack while moving; sword cav swings his sword while his horse is still chasing), but that may be one of those features no one knows how to implement.

Nah this one is actually somewhat obvious - the only real blocker is that the animation system can't play two animations at the same time, everything else is there already.