[simple task] a list of things is bad (and good) with A24 - to fix.

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

we need a list of things to come back and in bsde to see, what things are possible we will discuss in individual posts.

I don't want us to get too complicated explaining.

just a "wish list" based on that we proceed to discuss them one by one individually, i need to see what is common to all.

 

an example by @Yekaterina

Quote

I love most part of A24, especially these:

1. Siege workshop for every civ. 

2. Champions from barracks

3. Separate stable and barracks

4. Cheap and useless forts. 

5. Nerfed slingers

6. More techs available

7. Macedon gets black cloak

But I don't like these:

1. Rams for Maurya and Kush

2. Elephant discrimination

3. Archer changes

4. Athens and Sparta have no stoa

5. Useless and expensive mercenary

6. Rubbish catapult and oxybeles

the goals...

the general list of complaints will be as follows.

1. stabilized gameplay "turtle" - link to the post.
2. mercenary metal cost
3. archers can kill catapults and bolt shooters too easily
4. archer eles too cheap/powerful
5. archers OP 

Links to the topics

1 

 

2 

WIP...

Edited May 11, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

For me, and I think most players. (...) is my personal thoughts and suggestions

The good

1. slingers nerfed
2. blacksmith upgrade applications.
3. Universal siege shop
4. all civs stables-----> (even if civ is not a super good cav civ, it is an option in certain situations)
5. champion costs 
6. mercenaries cost idea ---> (I like the idea for mercs, but buffing the merc upgrade and adjustments to merc cost will help make them worth it)

The bad

1. stabilized gameplay "turtle" feeling in most games especially after 16-17 minutes (leads to endless games)
2. archers OP 
3. archery tradition lost tradeoff qualities --->(maybe it should be + 20% damage and plus 10 m range but plus min range and minus HP) and free.
4. archer eles too cheap/powerful
5. buffed effective damage, range, and health of forts and towers.
6. archers can kill catas and bolt shooters too easily
7. Metal cost huge for everything, stone excess goes to powerful defenses
8. Mercenaries cost much metal -----> (maybe move some metal cost to an asymmetric increase in food and or wood for different civs/units)
9. size of cities because of many new buildings and stone excess and slow training----> (civ specialization/rushing --> cheaper barracks (sparta) or stable(pers)
10. unit train times-----> (made it necessary to have 100% more barracks on average)

I hope this captures many peoples most general grievances with a24, and I want to know if anyone agrees or disagrees with my suggestions! I have seen the changes being considered for a25 and I like the work going forward. Great work!

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[Lion.Kanzen]

@Player of 0AD Any list you have there ?

[Lion.Kanzen]

The archers are very OP. ( You have to decrease attack rate and speed of movement.

Elephants haven't weaknesses against attacks from melee.

Iberians becomes a weak faction.

Swordman aren't so useful. (Bad role).

Lancer haven't a role just is another cab melee spear.

The team must  have to review all the changes from the A24 templates, To find role errors.( The unit is not effective against the units it is made for)

[Yekaterina]

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Lancer haven't a role just is another cab melee spear.

What would you like lancers to do? Are they not essentially the same as spear?

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Elephants haven't weaknesses against attacks from melee.

Being solved on phab already. 

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Iberians becomes a weak faction.

Perhaps add the soliferreum units from thorfinn mod to boost them? @Player of 0AD thinks that Iberians are a strong faction right now. I am rubbish at playing iber. 

 

[soloooy0]

the bad
archers op
siege machines and elephants vulnerable to arrowing
archer spam and ranged siege, the cheapest and most efficient tactic. 
all civs have siege workshop
useless outpost
unuseful mounted spearmen
expensive tech scheme, but allows for full cav, full infantry or mixed tactics as upgrades are global
no champions in phase 2 for greeks, macedonia deserves some champions in phase 2
macedonia has nothing to differentiate it from other civs as in previous 0ADs.
default unit formation (caused me a lot of suicides) 
the iberian incendiary ship doesn't effect fire on other ships -.-
mercenaries have a high metal cost
Roman castrum is almost useless 
women don't give bonus to men for collecting
paper troops do not have any bonus for phase change 

mercenaries are not allowed to collect resources

the good
the cost of champions
trade nerf
slinger nerf
slower economy, makes ruhs and early attacks more important 
 

for me a strategy game is based on, adjusting to the enemy or terrain and choosing what goes best for your situation.
for that the blacksmith system of A23 was very good.
 and not to mention the troops that the meta has been loaded with in each version.
op javelin cavalry
op slingers
op bolt throwers op
op archers
....

[Lion.Kanzen]

53 minutes ago, soloooy0 said:

useless outpost

Fixed. They are now more useful than before.

 

56 minutes ago, soloooy0 said:

elephants vulnerable to arrowing

This is normal. Now they are vulnerable to the pikes and spears 

 

58 minutes ago, soloooy0 said:

the iberian incendiary ship doesn't effect fire on other ships

We always neglect naval combat.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

What would you like lancers to do? Are they not essentially the same as spear?

Must have bonus against missile infantry.

And have more pierce attack than spear cavalry. More defense too. They were shock cavalry.

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Being solved on phab already. 

I found it out after posting this.

 

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Perhaps add the soliferreum units from thorfinn mod to boost them? @Player of 0AD thinks that Iberians are a strong faction right now. I am rubbish at playing iber

I have to try it, it was just in that mod that I noticed it.

[Yekaterina]

2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I have to try it, it was just in that mod that I noticed it.

The soliferreum units have 1 crush, 1 hack on top of 26 pierce. They are the first ranged unit to have hack damage, but you would need a large group of them in order to be effective at smashing structures. The reasoning behind it being their weapon has sharp blades aside of the tip, which can hack / slice. Their large mass also means collisions can crush their target.