Unrecoverable Military Tech Tree in Delenda Est

[myou5e]

In Delenda Est, the CC cannot train soldiers, moreover because females cant build Barracks, then if you lose all your soldiers you are unable to build military for the rest of the game. That part of the tech tree is completely unrecoverable. Is this an intentional design decision? If so, I can't see how it would be desirable at all. New players from the conventional game could easily handicap themself permanently by playing risky with their starting units and not realize it will lose their game.

[asterix]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I've been toying with giving the whole production queue to citizens and soldiers alike. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 hours ago, myou5e said:

In Delenda Est, the CC cannot train soldiers, moreover because females cant build Barracks, then if you lose all your soldiers you are unable to build military for the rest of the game. That part of the tech tree is completely unrecoverable. Is this an intentional design decision? If so, I can't see how it would be desirable at all. New players from the conventional game could easily handicap themself permanently by playing risky with their starting units and not realize it will lose their game.

 

4 hours ago, asterix said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/delenda_est/commit/3af13defe65b35e520d3842c92fbdab5fa46a9ad

After the above commit, Citizens and Citizen Soldiers can now lay and construct all buildings available to that civ. I've playtested this and it's good.

Furthermore, that commit and a previous one makes it so that if you capture an enemy Civic Center you can then train the enemy's citizens. So, if you are Sparta and you capture a Kushite CC, then you can train Kushite Citizens. Now, if you train that Kushite Citizen, most of the buildings they lay will by Spartan, except for Temples, Statues, and Wonders. Those will be Kushite. So, by capturing enemy CC's you can now mix and match some cultural structures. This is experimental for now. I may expand the list of native buildings the captured Citizens construct, or I might remove that completely. We'll see.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[myou5e]

12 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

 

https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/delenda_est/commit/3af13defe65b35e520d3842c92fbdab5fa46a9ad

After the above commit, Citizens and Citizen Soldiers can now lay and construct all buildings available to that civ. I've playtested this and it's good.

Furthermore, that commit and a previous one makes it so that if you capture an enemy Civic Center you can then train the enemy's citizens. So, if you are Sparta and you capture a Kushite CC, then you can train Kushite Citizens. Now, if you train that Kushite Citizen, most of the buildings they lay will by Spartan, except for Temples, Statues, and Wonders. Those will be Kushite. So, by capturing enemy CC's you can now mix and match some cultural structures. This is experimental for now. I may expand the list of native buildings the captured Citizens construct, or I might remove that completely. We'll see.

 

That's good. I understand the main game now makes all buildings available to both Citizens and Citizen Soldiers. I think this is actually preferable as they can already help with construction, it's just a matter of selecting the right units, which is really just annoying micro. I actually like the concept of capturable tech trees. It's really fun, and also realistic, at least to some extent. If you conquer another civilization you can generally recruit soldiers from among their local population, etc.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by myou5e
spelling

[myou5e]

I know the Nubas are only a mini faction, but their villages look really nice and i could see them as becoming more important if they are left with some handicaps, perhaps. For example, they could have naturally stronger units(perhaps by 10%?), and cheaper CC's, but have far less upgrades available to them. Speaking of capturable tech trees, this could work well together, as the Nubas would be stronger, but the upgrades of your starting civ could apply to them, which would make them sought after mercenaries. It would be a consistent way to look at the capturable Nuba mercenary camps.

PS. I'm glad to see you have added the military infantry trainable in their CC now :-) It was hard winning with just Scout Cavalry :-p

Edited August 4, 2020 by myou5e

[myou5e]

10 minutes ago, m7600 said:

You might be interested in the African civs that I'm making: Ethiopians, Malians, Moroccans and Zimbabweans. I haven't released them yet, but you can check out some images in their respective threads. They're in the Game Modification subforum. They won't work for Delenda Est because of the timeline (they're from the Middle Ages), but I might make some African civs for Delenda Est in the near future (Garamantes civ, for example).

I am interested in that actually :-) I have followed the development of your mod over the past month but only just got accepted into the forum :-) . I would be interested in play testing your mod if you like :-). I wonder if your mod would work with Millienium AD? The Vikings fought in Sicily and Jerusalem.
 

Quote

In 1035, Hardrada participated in the wars led by the Byzantine army, to force the Arabs out of Asia Minor. He led the army as far as Tigris River. He played a major role in capturing many of the Arab strongholds. Later, Hardrada fought in several wars in Jerusalem, and Sicily. During the reign of Emperor Michael IV, Hardrada remained a loyal member of the army, and fought in several battles, such as the ‘Battle of Olivento,’ and ‘Battle of Ostrovo,’ during this period."

https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/harald-hardrada-37576.php

Haven't found a source other than Wiki, but Wiki does mention they raided  North Africa also.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, myou5e said:

That's good. I understand the main game now makes all buildings available to both Citizens and Citizen Soldiers. I think this is actually preferable as they can already help with construction, it's just a matter of selecting the right units, which is really just annoying micro. I actually like the concept of capturable tech trees. It's really fun, and also realistic, at least to some extent. If you conquer another civilization you can generally recruit soldiers from among their local population, etc.

 

I think there should be a "cultural" stat, like the Loyalty stat, for the Civic Center so that at first after capturing it you can't train or do anything with it. But at some point you "pacify" it which allows you to train the native citizen unit, and then you "assimilate" it after time and then you train your own citizen from it.

[myou5e]

11 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I think there should be a "cultural" stat, like the Loyalty stat, for the Civic Center so that at first after capturing it you can't train or do anything with it. But at some point you "pacify" it which allows you to train the native citizen unit, and then you "assimilate" it after time and then you train your own citizen from it.

That's a really good idea.I wonder if we could have the concept of a "mixed" population too? A conquered CC could produce partly units from one Civ, and partly units from another Civ.

[myou5e]

20 minutes ago, m7600 said:

You know, I think I might just do that. Other people have suggested this as well, so why not? I'll have to contact the folks of Millenium AD to see if they're interested.

I would think,  ideally, it should be able to play them separately, or together.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, m7600 said:

Garamantes

Yass please.

Garamantes and Numidians? That would basically cover Africa for our time period.

 

29 minutes ago, myou5e said:

That's a really good idea.I wonder if we could have the concept of a "mixed" population too? A conquered CC could produce partly units from one Civ, and partly units from another Civ.

I like this! I might experiement.

Edited August 4, 2020 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[myou5e]

4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Yass please.

Garamantes and Numidians? That would basically cover Africa for our time period.

 

I like this! I might experiement.

Did you play Rise of Nations? I think they might have had this. Or maybe it was a civilization game. I remember seeing this somewhere. The city showed it was 70% Roman, 20% Celtic, 10% Germanic, or something similar to that.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

53 minutes ago, myou5e said:

Did you play Rise of Nations? I think they might have had this. Or maybe it was a civilization game. I remember seeing this somewhere. The city showed it was 70% Roman, 20% Celtic, 10% Germanic, or something similar to that.

Right. I don't know what game it was, but I've had that same idea for a long time.

[asterix]

2 hours ago, m7600 said:

You know, I think I might just do that. Other people have suggested this as well, so why not? I'll have to contact the folks of Millenium AD to see if they're interested.

From my point of view i am interested , I will have to ping others @Stan` @wackyserious @Alexandermb @Lion.Kanzen @Nescio, btw development version is here https://github.com/0ADMods/millenniumad